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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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thank you

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[Music]

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welcome back to liminal frames I'm your

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host Nathan and I'm joined by my friend

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and co-host Aaron EXO academian

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Darren it's uh

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it's good to see you again I feel like

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it's been ages since we last recorded I

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know you and I both recently had some

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travel away from home and I think we

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both had excellent trips spending some

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time with friends and family uh it's

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good to be back home as well and it's

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been a busy week in my opinion for the

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UAP UFO topic but uh before we jump into

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some of that anything you want to share

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about your uh your travels

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perhaps there is yes I had a great trip

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up to the Pacific Northwest

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um northern Washington State and into

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British Columbia mostly spent my time in

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the Vancouver area

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and saw some friends there it was a

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great experience just catching up with

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people had been a long time since I'd

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been back there probably 10 years which

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was amazing

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but one of the things I was planning to

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do which did work out is that there are

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some places that are much more

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Progressive when it comes to

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psychedelics and whatnot and of course

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his places in the West in the in the U.S

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like Washington State Oregon California

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there's places where

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a lot of psychedelics are now completely

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legal

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slowly but surely our entire nation is

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slowly moving towards normalizing the

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use of these things

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psilocybin for instance is much more

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readily accepted as a kind of treatment

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for depression what not that slowly

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gaining traction and even in

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conservative States I think

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but it was really amazing to go to

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Vancouver and be able to go with a

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friend of mine to downtown Vancouver and

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walk into a store and be able to have

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you know shellfuls of different things

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you can imagine getting so I was really

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interested in trying DMT for the first

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time so I have experience with

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psilocybin and I've talked about that in

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the past and had really mind-blowing

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mind-expanding experiences

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on psilocybin but was really eager to

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try DMT and to make a long story short I

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did sort of two rounds of it the first

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round was the sort of 30 milligrams

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trying to get to what they call the

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waiting room which was a crazy

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experience because you're you're

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actually trying to suck in this Vapor

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that's being burned from a powder and

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turned into a vapor and it's so fast

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acting compared to psilocybin that by

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the time you're finished taking the

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vapor you're already feeling like your

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brain begin to really sort of phase

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shift into something else and so then

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you lie down and you have the experience

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and the first part was these crazy

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geometric shapes and everything in kind

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of Earth Tones

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and also feeling a little bit of like

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out of bodiness to that and then the

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second round was like 50 milligrams

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which they call breakthrough territory

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kind of thing and I didn't quite I don't

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think quite got the full 50 I think I

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probably got 45 because again you're

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trying to I'm not a smoker at all and

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you're trying to suck in this Vapor

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which is you know kind of burns the

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throat a little bit but you're trying to

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do this before it escapes out the top of

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the pipe anyway long story short

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once it hit me I had to quickly lie down

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because you know it was hitting me by

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the time I finished basically and that

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was a really amazing experience where

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basically the ego dissolved altogether I

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had no sense of having a history I had

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no sense of

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a course of events that are part of

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Darren King's life none of that was the

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case I just felt like I was a

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consciousness

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basically that was a part of the

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environment I was in it was all shapes

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and uh geometric patterns and whatnot

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that were moving around me undulating

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and things and I really had no subject

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object distinction and I really had no

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sense of small self ego I had no sense

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of History because of that I had no

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sense of time so it was really profound

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at one point I actually felt this

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presence like an intelligence around me

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that was somehow distinct from me almost

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surprised that I was there almost that

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kind of feeling

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and then I felt like this this geometric

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shape wrap around me almost like a

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blanket and come really close around me

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so it was a really profound experience

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really glad that I had the opportunity

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to do that and I hope that that becomes

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more normalized in our society as well

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but yeah it was absolutely a

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mind-blowing trip in more ways than one

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uh okay yeah your trip was a little bit

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more mind expanding than mine was

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perhaps uh I'll give you that I was in

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New York City though and had a wonderful

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time and one thing that I I love about

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New York and I know you've been uh

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is just the Cosmopolitan quality of the

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city and you know you're talking about

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altered sort of experiences of reality

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and for for someone like myself who's

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from the south and has grown up largely

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in more uh you know Suburban areas or or

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even some rural areas uh I would and I

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lived in the city a little bit as well

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but but being in a city of that size

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where you're you can walk a single block

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and you hear five different languages

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being spoken uh we had some amazing

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walks in Central Park just observing

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people from everywhere and honestly it

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was incredibly uh

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hopeful and encouraging and optimistic

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to see Humanity on full display doing

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what we do you know just kind of being

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together and and going about our lives

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and celebrating these individual moments

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and it made me uh you know reflect on

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just how much we how much promise we

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have as a species when we can look past

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some of the petty differences that tend

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to divide us and and it was a reminder

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too I think that when you're forced to

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live or you or you opt to live in an

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environment that is full of different

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people from different backgrounds and

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histories and cultural Frameworks and

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and you know views of the world when

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you're mingling with those kinds of uh

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you know experiences all the time it it

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changes you it changes the way that you

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look at at reality and that's um you

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know I think a big takeaway for things

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that we talk about on our show uh how

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reality is really impacted by the things

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which we sort of surround ourselves with

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and if we just give some of these other

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perspectives and opportunity we can be

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rewarded with a tremendous amount of

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world expansion uh and that's really

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satisfying

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absolutely and it's interesting how of

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course that adds to some of the division

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we have in our country because the more

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Cosmopolitan areas

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the area is usually on the coast when

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right it's not a coincidence right on

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the coastal regions you have more

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interaction with International cultures

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coming in and mixing and it tends to

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stir the pot and you end up with a

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different stew than you do in the

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central parts of the country and that

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leads to what we have now in terms of a

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lot of strife but yes I think that's an

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apt description or metaphor for what

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we're going to talk about today because

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we're talking about how new ideas blend

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into the culture and change it

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exactly a lot of good stuff to cover on

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this episode

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and before we get into some of these

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specific items I know folks are going to

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want to get your take on the NASA UAP

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panel and breathing that happened just a

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few days ago

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um my thoughts honestly I thought it was

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really great I was encouraged by the

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number of uh academics and and phds that

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were present and who were treating this

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pretty seriously that were uh expressed

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a desire at least you know verbally to

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you know reduce the stigma and encourage

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further study uh I thought that Sean

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Kirkpatrick's remarks were much better

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than the ones he provided at the at the

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earlier hearing

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um and you know his comment of course

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which was has been making the rounds in

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social media about the metallic spheres

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being seen throughout the world and uh

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and sometimes instances performing some

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pretty anomalous

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Maneuvers like that was a pretty big

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thing to say and I think like a lot of

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us when when things like that are said

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we get a little frustrated there's not

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like a tremendous degree of follow-up

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after that that okay wait you just said

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there are these flying metal spheres and

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that's not you know like wait you're

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you're telling me these are real are

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they balloons like it'd be interesting

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if somebody even asked that direct

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question you didn't really hear that uh

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ask but it seemed pretty clear at least

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to me from the context of his statements

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that they weren't balloons that they

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weren't merely balloons

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um so anyway I I thought overall it was

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excellent It's a continued advancement

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of the of the topic in the mainstream uh

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making it more palatable to to discuss

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and and express a public interest in

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this area uh from an organization that

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and I think this was even mentioned in

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the opening remarks that has a very high

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uh popularity rating in not only the

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United States but but throughout the

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world NASA is very highly regarded so

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for an institution like this to come

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forward in a public way with such a show

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of force and interest uh to me if you're

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a UAP Enthusiast UFO Enthusiast like you

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have to be happy that this has happened

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and and it should make you hopeful for

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where we are going I know it's not as

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fast as some might like it to be but to

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be honest this is probably the speed

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which it needs to be

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but what were your thoughts about it did

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you just say go fast I oh no sorry

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um yeah before we went on the air we

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were talking about this right that um

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people easily lose a sense of context

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here because those of us fascinated by

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this topic obsessed by it you might say

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are so into the nuances so into the

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weeds with it on a daily basis that much

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of this seems like Child's Play to US

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but when we really step back and think

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about where we are compared to where we

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were prior to 2017 it's a sea change

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there's no doubt about it I mean NASA is

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the organization you want looking into

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these things and those of us really

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familiar with the data are frustrated

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that seti was our best attempt at trying

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to ascertain the existence of

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extraterrestrial or extra dimensional or

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extra conventional life

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in the cosmos and so for them to say

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there's clearly enough data that we're

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00:10:53,569 --> 00:10:52,260
going to take this serious so we're

278
00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:53,579
going to actually put together a task

279
00:10:57,650 --> 00:10:55,980
force within NASA and look into this

280
00:11:00,050 --> 00:10:57,660
data is already groundbreaking

281
00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:00,060
absolutely groundbreaking because if

282
00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:01,920
they were still under the Old Guard

283
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:04,620
saying there's nothing here there's no

284
00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:05,760
there there then they wouldn't even

285
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:07,620
bother to form it to begin with so

286
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:09,720
that's the first thing to make note of

287
00:11:14,509 --> 00:11:12,120
is just how different things are

288
00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:14,519
not only did we have the the UAP task

289
00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:17,220
force but now we have Arrow we have NASA

290
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:19,200
doing their own task force we have the

291
00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:20,399
White House doing their own

292
00:11:23,930 --> 00:11:22,620
investigation not to mention what's

293
00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:23,940
going on internationally in other

294
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,700
countries so this is a massive shift

295
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,839
from the way things have been

296
00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:29,760
historically so we need to keep that in

297
00:11:33,410 --> 00:11:30,839
mind

298
00:11:36,170 --> 00:11:33,420
and yes this conference this briefing

299
00:11:38,750 --> 00:11:36,180
was not full of just scoff there was

300
00:11:40,250 --> 00:11:38,760
reference like you say to these orbs and

301
00:11:41,329 --> 00:11:40,260
a lot was said in a short period of time

302
00:11:42,769 --> 00:11:41,339
there when you think about the

303
00:11:44,030 --> 00:11:42,779
implications because he's saying

304
00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:44,040
basically

305
00:11:47,930 --> 00:11:46,500
not only do these orbs exist and they

306
00:11:49,550 --> 00:11:47,940
seem to be anomalous we're not sure how

307
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,560
they're staying Aloft we don't see any

308
00:11:53,090 --> 00:11:51,360
signs of propulsion

309
00:11:54,650 --> 00:11:53,100
but if they're metal on top of that you

310
00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:54,660
know which they certainly seem to be by

311
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,480
looking at it then you know that's some

312
00:12:01,310 --> 00:11:59,279
weight to that and doesn't just tend to

313
00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:01,320
float and even if someone says well I

314
00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:02,700
don't buy the metal thing I think

315
00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:05,100
they're just balloons well then he says

316
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,079
things like making interesting Maneuvers

317
00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:08,880
or something like that and of course

318
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:11,100
balloons don't tend to make Maneuvers if

319
00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:12,959
they are blown in the wind there's a

320
00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:15,540
very you know predictable pattern that

321
00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:18,300
that takes that you can say that looks

322
00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:19,860
like wind patterns to me but clearly

323
00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:22,860
he's seen some kind of evidence of

324
00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:25,260
sharp Maneuvers that suggest some sort

325
00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:26,760
of intelligent control

326
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:28,380
and he said this is all over the world

327
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,660
so that's a lot really it's in like you

328
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,399
say it's much more than was said in the

329
00:12:37,009 --> 00:12:34,560
the initial conference

330
00:12:38,449 --> 00:12:37,019
so I think we we should be encouraged I

331
00:12:40,370 --> 00:12:38,459
think that

332
00:12:42,290 --> 00:12:40,380
some people are put off by the fact that

333
00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:42,300
it's been declared that experience or

334
00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:44,760
testimony will not be part of the mix

335
00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:46,860
but of course we have to realize here

336
00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:49,019
we're talking about trying to persuade a

337
00:12:54,170 --> 00:12:49,980
very

338
00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:54,180
skeptical audience a scientific group of

339
00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:56,040
people who have assumed there's nothing

340
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,139
here so if they're going to be persuaded

341
00:13:01,550 --> 00:13:00,240
it's not going to be by narratives no

342
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,560
matter how much they are based in

343
00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:03,120
reality and they are based in reality

344
00:13:06,410 --> 00:13:05,160
but that alone will not convince these

345
00:13:08,269 --> 00:13:06,420
people

346
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:08,279
it's going to be hard data it's going to

347
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:10,320
be sensor system data corroborating

348
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:12,600
witness accounts and things like that

349
00:13:16,430 --> 00:13:14,760
and we are at a point in history with

350
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:16,440
our technological innovation where we

351
00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:18,300
really should be able to have multiple

352
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,579
sensor systems often backing up this

353
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:22,380
data and corroborating it

354
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:24,360
so yeah I think we should absolutely be

355
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:27,060
encouraged by this and I think also as

356
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:28,440
you and I talked before we went on the

357
00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:31,139
air this is also part of the slow bleed

358
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:33,720
the slower climatization that I think

359
00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:37,200
has been underway since 2017 that this

360
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:39,660
is not just about them coming forward to

361
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:41,100
the public and say hey for the first

362
00:13:44,810 --> 00:13:43,200
time we're taking this seriously

363
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:44,820
there's a bit of a

364
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:47,040
play there because I think many of them

365
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,839
do know there's something and there has

366
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,639
been something for quite some time but

367
00:13:54,050 --> 00:13:52,560
by at least saying that acting like wow

368
00:13:55,129 --> 00:13:54,060
look at this there actually is some data

369
00:13:57,470 --> 00:13:55,139
we're going to look into this we're

370
00:13:59,329 --> 00:13:57,480
going to form some task forces what that

371
00:14:01,970 --> 00:13:59,339
does is it slowly implants in people's

372
00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:01,980
minds that there maybe is there there

373
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:04,380
and that makes it a much easier

374
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:06,420
transition towards actually confirming

375
00:14:10,430 --> 00:14:07,920
something later on so I think this is

376
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:10,440
all part of a play that is going to take

377
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:12,060
numerous steps

378
00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:13,920
yeah completely agree uh giving

379
00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:15,899
permission to take it seriously that's

380
00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:18,899
what this is really doing and the more

381
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:22,200
academics that cross that line then the

382
00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:25,560
more will follow we will get better data

383
00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:27,420
better instrumentation and they talked a

384
00:14:31,129 --> 00:14:28,680
great deal about calibrating

385
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,139
instrumentation all those things are

386
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:33,360
things we should be celebrating as

387
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:35,700
glacially slow as the as that process

388
00:14:41,210 --> 00:14:38,639
might be as you point out we really have

389
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:41,220
to go that way we have to because the

390
00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:43,440
world we live in isn't going to take a

391
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,480
witness testimony on face value they're

392
00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:47,120
gonna they're gonna require

393
00:14:52,009 --> 00:14:50,220
many different uh platforms and

394
00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:52,019
corroborating pieces of evidence to to

395
00:14:57,650 --> 00:14:54,420
really get there and and be confronted

396
00:14:59,150 --> 00:14:57,660
with the reality of this phenomena and I

397
00:15:00,889 --> 00:14:59,160
think that that is what is happening it

398
00:15:02,810 --> 00:15:00,899
is clear that that is happening it's

399
00:15:04,129 --> 00:15:02,820
just happening a little bit slowly one

400
00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:04,139
other thing I wanted to point out is

401
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:06,540
that uh he mentioned that there had been

402
00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:07,800
a briefing with the five eyes

403
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,620
organization uh you know the the the the

404
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:12,959
five intelligence the five country is a

405
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,519
part of that intelligence apparatus that

406
00:15:19,310 --> 00:15:16,399
we share intelligence with

407
00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:19,320
just another in my opinion another data

408
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:21,959
point to show there is a there there

409
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:24,959
you're not going to have a high level uh

410
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:27,600
intelligence briefing with you're the

411
00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:30,720
four of your other closest allies on a

412
00:15:36,889 --> 00:15:34,260
subject that is entirely fantasy that is

413
00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:36,899
uh you know some somebody's uh you know

414
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:39,060
crazy concocted idea that they've you

415
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:40,920
know Twisted some congressperson's arm

416
00:15:46,009 --> 00:15:43,380
into throwing some some time and energy

417
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:46,019
and dollars toward this is a very

418
00:15:50,990 --> 00:15:48,540
serious thing and and yes there are

419
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:51,000
actual drones there are uh you know

420
00:15:54,829 --> 00:15:52,920
drones that are in our skies from our

421
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:54,839
adversaries drone technology is

422
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:57,180
advancing and there probably are some

423
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,220
novel technologies that that our

424
00:16:04,269 --> 00:16:00,959
adversaries possess and that we possess

425
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,279
that are in our skies but all that said

426
00:16:09,170 --> 00:16:06,959
they there is something happening there

427
00:16:11,389 --> 00:16:09,180
is in fact they're there and I think

428
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:11,399
that it's it's we're really past the

429
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:15,720
point in my opinion where uh this sort

430
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:17,820
of fantasy argument holds any water and

431
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:19,680
and it starts to look more like a

432
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,680
conspiracy than than actual reality and

433
00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:24,839
I think it's worth pointing that out

434
00:16:27,769 --> 00:16:26,040
um and then the last thing I want to say

435
00:16:29,449 --> 00:16:27,779
about the hearing is it was brought up

436
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:29,459
and it's been discussed a good bit in

437
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,940
social media was uh the

438
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,040
the mention about harassment so there

439
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,680
was a a little bit of a talk about uh

440
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:39,120
the folks on the panel who'd been

441
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:41,820
subject to harassment from essentially

442
00:16:46,249 --> 00:16:44,220
the people in the UFO Community is what

443
00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:46,259
I could ascertain it was kind of

444
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:47,880
difficult they were a little bit vague

445
00:16:53,689 --> 00:16:50,880
as to where it was coming from and what

446
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:53,699
the nature of the harassment was uh but

447
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,680
I think you and I are both want to be

448
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:58,199
very clear that that that's not okay

449
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:01,680
it's not acceptable uh to harass these

450
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,500
officials and and try to you know shame

451
00:17:08,929 --> 00:17:07,439
them or strong-arm them into believing

452
00:17:12,829 --> 00:17:08,939
or looking at something that you think

453
00:17:14,569 --> 00:17:12,839
they need to see uh as uh as everyone's

454
00:17:16,909 --> 00:17:14,579
grandma always says you know you catch

455
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:16,919
more flies with honey that than you do

456
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,559
with anything else so that's the

457
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:20,880
approach we should take here you know we

458
00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:22,860
shouldn't be belittling uh people that

459
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:25,079
are that are sticking their professional

460
00:17:30,409 --> 00:17:28,319
necks out to try to find answers

461
00:17:32,450 --> 00:17:30,419
yeah and that goes for both sides right

462
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:32,460
it's not just the people who believe

463
00:17:39,049 --> 00:17:36,600
this and want to call the bluff of some

464
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:39,059
of these experts and say come on do your

465
00:17:42,409 --> 00:17:40,980
job admit that it's real

466
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:42,419
there's those people who need to settle

467
00:17:46,850 --> 00:17:43,860
down and let the people do the research

468
00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:46,860
they have to really go through the

469
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:48,600
effort of determining that there is

470
00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:50,160
evidence and present that because that's

471
00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:51,780
what's going to persuade a skeptical

472
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:53,820
public and a scientific Community not

473
00:17:57,409 --> 00:17:55,320
just because you say you think it's real

474
00:17:58,730 --> 00:17:57,419
and you've known all along those people

475
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:58,740
need to settle down

476
00:18:03,890 --> 00:18:02,160
but so too do the Skeptics that say what

477
00:18:06,169 --> 00:18:03,900
are you doing even looking into this you

478
00:18:08,029 --> 00:18:06,179
know it's ridiculous this is an X-Files

479
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:08,039
episode right in other words you get

480
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:09,960
those kind of belligerent Skeptics on

481
00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:13,679
both sides so neither one is helpful

482
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:15,000
um the other thing I would say too I

483
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:16,679
think you made a good point and I want

484
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,360
to draw an analogy here

485
00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:20,160
when you talk about the meeting with the

486
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:22,140
five eyes and whatnot and I'm aware of

487
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:23,160
different things that are happening

488
00:18:27,409 --> 00:18:25,740
internationally in terms of preparation

489
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,419
for something that's coming

490
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:29,520
and I'll give you the analogy of when

491
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:31,860
during the Cold War when we were worried

492
00:18:36,890 --> 00:18:34,740
about the Soviets launching an attack

493
00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:36,900
what would make us nervous is not

494
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:39,480
suddenly that missiles are leading silos

495
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:41,580
but actually that our satellites were

496
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:43,740
picking up movement of

497
00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:47,220
you know tanks and Rocket carriers and

498
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:49,020
things like that and troops moving right

499
00:18:54,409 --> 00:18:50,880
those kinds of things you see

500
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:54,419
politicians going into directions where

501
00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:55,500
there's going to be like they're going

502
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:57,960
into uh underground facilities those

503
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:00,720
kinds of things hint at what's about to

504
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,220
happen right that's what you would see

505
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:04,559
just prior to a nuclear launch you would

506
00:19:09,409 --> 00:19:07,080
see all these signs building up towards

507
00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:09,419
this final thing but it's the signs that

508
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:11,400
tell you what's coming and I would Point

509
00:19:15,710 --> 00:19:12,780
people to that when they think about

510
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,720
this notion of disclosure coming in some

511
00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:17,760
significant way that what we're seeing

512
00:19:23,529 --> 00:19:20,179
here is that very thing we're seeing the

513
00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:23,539
preemptive you know initial movement

514
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:25,860
across International borders that's

515
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:28,320
hinting at this preparation for

516
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,700
something and that would not be

517
00:19:33,890 --> 00:19:31,679
happening if there was not a there there

518
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:33,900
again like you say it's not just that

519
00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:36,000
the data is there but clearly there's a

520
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:38,580
preparation for disclosing of that data

521
00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:41,220
in some way some shape or form otherwise

522
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:43,020
these kinds of movements across

523
00:19:46,669 --> 00:19:44,820
international border there's different

524
00:19:48,529 --> 00:19:46,679
political factions aligning around

525
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:48,539
briefing each other and whatnot would

526
00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:50,460
not be happening unless that was for a

527
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,960
purpose

528
00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:53,760
that's an excellent point

529
00:20:00,350 --> 00:19:57,000
uh well very good I think um we're

530
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:00,360
looking forward to more coming from that

531
00:20:05,870 --> 00:20:03,120
conversation uh from the panelists that

532
00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:05,880
participated uh now that we know who

533
00:20:10,370 --> 00:20:08,520
they are uh it's a lot to get excited

534
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:10,380
about and to and to be looking forward

535
00:20:15,049 --> 00:20:13,020
to uh later this year and of course

536
00:20:17,150 --> 00:20:15,059
there is Kirkpatrick pointed out there

537
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:17,160
is a uh an official you know report

538
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:19,559
coming from Arrow uh in just a few

539
00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:20,460
months

540
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:22,440
um so that will be interesting uh to see

541
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:24,780
as well as as we get more and more data

542
00:20:29,870 --> 00:20:27,600
about what they are up to

543
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:29,880
um one of the big challenges with this

544
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,820
topic is

545
00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:34,559
uh you know the way that it sort of

546
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:39,000
confronts our Notions of of of what is

547
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:42,059
real or what we might expect uh the UFO

548
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:45,000
phenomena to represent uh and we've

549
00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:46,620
talked a good deal about some of this as

550
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:49,020
well just the way that we are all in a

551
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,799
way primed uh to have a certain

552
00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:55,919
narrative expectation about what the

553
00:21:03,710 --> 00:20:58,440
arrival of a non-human intelligent

554
00:21:07,010 --> 00:21:03,720
species may mean for our world uh we've

555
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,020
all seen countless movies and TV shows

556
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:10,080
that have gone through scenarios uh that

557
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:11,940
we're all quite familiar with and I

558
00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:13,980
think maybe sometimes we forget the

559
00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:17,160
degree to which that content is at the

560
00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:20,760
Forefront of our mental image of what

561
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:23,400
this may be and what of what an

562
00:21:29,090 --> 00:21:25,380
unfolding of a disclosure of this this

563
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,100
nature may look like and you and I have

564
00:21:33,649 --> 00:21:31,620
discussed a great length the this has

565
00:21:36,289 --> 00:21:33,659
that it's probably not going to be a lot

566
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:36,299
like that at all and how we're going to

567
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:38,820
have to Grapple with many different

568
00:21:45,289 --> 00:21:42,840
areas where our expectation does not

569
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:45,299
conform to the reality of the situation

570
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:47,820
and so we're going to walk through some

571
00:21:53,090 --> 00:21:51,720
of those scenarios on this episode uh

572
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:53,100
and I don't know where you wanted to

573
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,100
start with this one uh I'll let you kind

574
00:22:00,350 --> 00:21:57,600
of open the floor with what you think is

575
00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:00,360
maybe an initial area of conflict

576
00:22:08,029 --> 00:22:03,960
between our expectation and the reality

577
00:22:09,950 --> 00:22:08,039
that the phenomena may represent for us

578
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,960
yeah when we were talking about this and

579
00:22:15,649 --> 00:22:12,240
following up on our previous episode

580
00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:15,659
where we talked about disclosure

581
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:17,400
because there are so many implications

582
00:22:21,529 --> 00:22:20,640
ramifications consequences to this it

583
00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:21,539
really

584
00:22:26,510 --> 00:22:24,059
needed a deeper dive into some of the

585
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:26,520
specifics of what this will look like as

586
00:22:30,409 --> 00:22:28,380
our civilization begins to metabolize

587
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:30,419
this information

588
00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:32,580
as you hinted at there many of us

589
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:34,440
intimately familiar with this topic have

590
00:22:39,169 --> 00:22:37,260
had to years to work through the nuances

591
00:22:41,630 --> 00:22:39,179
to actually experience some cognitive

592
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:41,640
dissonance when we wanted to believe one

593
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:44,340
thing until the data you know confronted

594
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:45,360
us to the point where we said well

595
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,980
actually it's something else or it's

596
00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:48,240
just too complex for me to even

597
00:22:55,490 --> 00:22:53,390
I know that a line that Jeff kreipel

598
00:22:58,370 --> 00:22:55,500
came up with that I love is refuse to

599
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,380
land right refusal to land it's very

600
00:23:03,169 --> 00:23:00,480
tempting to want to land in all sorts of

601
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:03,179
areas in this topic but because it's so

602
00:23:07,130 --> 00:23:05,280
eclipses our understanding not just of

603
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:07,140
what these others may be but what

604
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:11,580
reality is full stop I think we have to

605
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:14,880
keep an open mind be willing to explore

606
00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:17,220
different Avenues but also recognize

607
00:23:21,049 --> 00:23:18,840
there's a lot we don't know and there's

608
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:21,059
a lot we don't know that we don't know

609
00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:23,580
so these are things to keep in mind the

610
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,260
challenge is in the general public

611
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:27,360
people don't tend to think that way they

612
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:29,100
tend to immediately go with a gut

613
00:23:33,770 --> 00:23:31,260
instinct reaction I believe that's true

614
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,780
I think that's fake news right this is

615
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:35,760
what happens in our culture right now

616
00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:37,980
so you take again the consideration that

617
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,720
we've had years to metabolize this

618
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:41,039
information and work through some of the

619
00:23:43,789 --> 00:23:42,600
nuance and I think many of us even when

620
00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:43,799
you think back over the last few years

621
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:45,720
you almost see this

622
00:23:50,529 --> 00:23:48,179
Evolution on UFO Twitter from

623
00:23:52,909 --> 00:23:50,539
extraterrestrial to interdimensional to

624
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:52,919
ultra-terrestrial right so you actually

625
00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:55,559
see this kind of evolution as people

626
00:23:59,330 --> 00:23:58,020
grapple with the data and say well it's

627
00:24:01,490 --> 00:23:59,340
kind of like that but then there's this

628
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,500
data that says somehow this is part of

629
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:03,360
the picture too and then you bring in

630
00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:05,220
PSI phenomena stuff a near-death

631
00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:06,539
experience and Out of Body Experience

632
00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:09,299
and how that's related how psychedelic

633
00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:11,640
experiences sometimes put you in the

634
00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:13,380
presence of beings that seem a lot like

635
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,940
the beings that supposedly are doing

636
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:16,559
abductions what does that say about

637
00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:19,740
reality so many intriguing questions

638
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:22,500
and you think about that complexity you

639
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:25,080
think about even how abductee you slash

640
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:28,320
contact e slash experiencers often also

641
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,360
have memory of previous lifetimes

642
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:32,400
sometimes even memories of having

643
00:24:37,549 --> 00:24:34,320
different forms sometimes people even

644
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,559
believing that they were a gray alien in

645
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:39,360
another lifetime or that they even now

646
00:24:43,310 --> 00:24:41,640
have kind of a dual identity Susie

647
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:43,320
Hansen wrote this book called dual Soul

648
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:45,960
identity which is all about that so

649
00:24:49,490 --> 00:24:47,700
these are Notions that the general

650
00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:49,500
public is not prepared for they're

651
00:24:52,669 --> 00:24:50,940
thinking it's either going to be Star

652
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,679
Trek or Independence Day right those are

653
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:54,720
the kind of the templates we have and

654
00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:57,780
whenever you see Alien movies in the

655
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,640
mainstream they tend to be quick

656
00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:01,440
confirmation but one of our assumptions

657
00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:03,900
and then the action plays out the movie

658
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:06,360
is not two hours of mind-blowing what

659
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:08,280
does this mean and what is reality and

660
00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:11,100
who am I who are we but this is actually

661
00:25:14,930 --> 00:25:13,380
what's entailed in this so yeah we

662
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:14,940
wanted to spend some time going into

663
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,500
each of these some of the different

664
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:18,240
implications of this and the different

665
00:25:23,870 --> 00:25:21,780
areas that inevitably get raised in the

666
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:23,880
midst of grappling with this and when

667
00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:26,880
you think about just how mind stretching

668
00:25:30,769 --> 00:25:29,100
this is and civilization challenging

669
00:25:34,130 --> 00:25:30,779
this is in terms of our reality

670
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:34,140
construct ultimately you can see why

671
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,360
again not to excuse the secret keeping

672
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,159
up till now but you definitely recognize

673
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,320
if nothing else that it's a complicated

674
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:42,720
matter and that considerations around

675
00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:44,480
how to release this without

676
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:47,880
destabilizing the construct because we

677
00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:50,460
have economies that run on fear and

678
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:52,200
greed and so if you suddenly inject a

679
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,460
lot of fear

680
00:25:58,730 --> 00:25:56,159
into the system and the system is not

681
00:26:00,289 --> 00:25:58,740
built with withhold and sustain that

682
00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,299
kind of

683
00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:02,820
Terror that could exist across the

684
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,400
culture then you really do give some

685
00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:07,679
great thought to how do we do this in a

686
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:09,900
way that moves us forward but doesn't

687
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:12,240
completely Panic people but again I just

688
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,620
want to quickly add here that I think

689
00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:15,600
those of us who are familiar with this

690
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:18,120
topic also have this sense that and this

691
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:19,500
is true for many experiences it's

692
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,779
certainly true for me that the status

693
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:24,360
quo is not sustainable anyway so even if

694
00:26:28,430 --> 00:26:26,039
it means there's some

695
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,440
serious destabilization in the long run

696
00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:30,779
to me that still seems like the lesser

697
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:32,760
of two evils

698
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:34,440
yeah it uh

699
00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:36,600
I love the the term

700
00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:38,820
that you use metabolizing the

701
00:26:42,649 --> 00:26:40,740
information I think that's a good

702
00:26:44,210 --> 00:26:42,659
way to think about this that it takes

703
00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:44,220
time to

704
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:46,200
work through

705
00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:49,679
the various implications of of this

706
00:26:54,049 --> 00:26:51,320
phenomenal experience

707
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:54,059
in order to find some footing right

708
00:26:57,529 --> 00:26:55,919
because really we need a frame of

709
00:27:01,549 --> 00:26:57,539
reference we need something that we can

710
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:01,559
stand on to then build off of right so

711
00:27:06,350 --> 00:27:04,500
at least we have uh you know to some

712
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:06,360
degree we have these existing narratives

713
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,779
like you said Independence Day uh or uh

714
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:11,760
was that the one that used uh Star Trek

715
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,740
yeah Star Trek those are great uh

716
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,360
comparisons

717
00:27:18,769 --> 00:27:16,799
um you know at least we have those

718
00:27:20,570 --> 00:27:18,779
because I think they aren't terrible

719
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:20,580
jumping off points I mean they and they

720
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:23,220
in a way kind of epitomize the the sort

721
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:26,640
of Base human fight or flight instincts

722
00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:28,260
right

723
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:30,360
um you know off which we have to make

724
00:27:33,529 --> 00:27:31,740
decisions and we're going to have to

725
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:33,539
make decisions in the face of some of

726
00:27:39,409 --> 00:27:36,720
these uh revelatory uh announcements

727
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:39,419
that may be coming uh in terms of what

728
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:40,799
they mean for us personally and

729
00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:43,440
communally Etc and and some of those

730
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:44,760
decisions are going to be wrong let's

731
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:46,080
let's be clear about that right some of

732
00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:47,700
the initial decisions that we're going

733
00:27:54,049 --> 00:27:50,820
to make in reaction to this reality are

734
00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:54,059
going to be wrong and they're going to

735
00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:56,360
you know sort of Spawn

736
00:28:02,269 --> 00:27:59,460
conclusions or or lines of inquiry that

737
00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:02,279
will be dead ends that and in many ways

738
00:28:07,789 --> 00:28:04,380
the community of interest can maybe help

739
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:07,799
with some of that navigation right it

740
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:09,480
can we can say you know yeah we've

741
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:12,240
explored that idea this is what you know

742
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:14,700
it tends to uh you know lead lead toward

743
00:28:18,350 --> 00:28:16,380
or are this the evidence that kind of

744
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:18,360
supports that way of thinking but also

745
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:21,840
consider this alternative as well so

746
00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:24,840
helping in a way kind of being digestive

747
00:28:30,769 --> 00:28:27,860
AIDS right for the larger

748
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,779
community of of interests that are the

749
00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:33,120
global Community as they as they get you

750
00:28:37,789 --> 00:28:35,580
know acclimated to this reality I think

751
00:28:40,130 --> 00:28:37,799
is a is a really important uh you know

752
00:28:43,850 --> 00:28:40,140
task that is before us

753
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:43,860
um but but it is so abstract right you

754
00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:45,120
know I think you're talking about

755
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:47,400
psychedelics at the at the onset of the

756
00:28:52,610 --> 00:28:50,039
show is a good uh you know sort of

757
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:52,620
comparison point there because when

758
00:28:57,470 --> 00:28:54,120
you're when you're in that kind of state

759
00:28:59,570 --> 00:28:57,480
of mind it it's so abstract and

760
00:29:02,870 --> 00:28:59,580
disassociative from your normal waking

761
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:02,880
state that you you go through a process

762
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:06,659
of uh of acclimate acclimatization and

763
00:29:11,690 --> 00:29:09,120
meaning making that you that you

764
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,700
generate as the experience progresses

765
00:29:15,649 --> 00:29:13,679
you don't you don't enter into that

766
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:15,659
experience and go oh I mean I this all

767
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:17,460
makes sense to me like you know I've got

768
00:29:21,889 --> 00:29:19,440
these swirling things happening and you

769
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:21,899
know that's not how it works you really

770
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:24,960
have to sit with the experience and then

771
00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:27,539
it begins to sort of take a kind of form

772
00:29:32,450 --> 00:29:30,360
uh and a meaning that that you know that

773
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:32,460
is really quite personal to you and I

774
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:33,779
think that that is something that we

775
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:37,020
will see occur uh and and that that said

776
00:29:40,490 --> 00:29:38,880
we're still going to have areas that

777
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:40,500
that we're going to be completely

778
00:29:45,529 --> 00:29:42,600
ignorant toward because as we've talked

779
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:45,539
about many times uh we don't have an

780
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:49,200
experience of reality that is close to

781
00:29:54,130 --> 00:29:51,360
to the actual truth of reality we have

782
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:54,140
an interface we have an approximation

783
00:29:59,630 --> 00:29:57,600
and so when reality is uh is so

784
00:30:02,269 --> 00:29:59,640
incredibly strange Beyond even our

785
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:02,279
ability to comprehend it we're naturally

786
00:30:06,649 --> 00:30:03,960
going to get a lot of things wrong

787
00:30:08,750 --> 00:30:06,659
there'll be some translation error uh in

788
00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:08,760
trying to understand what that means

789
00:30:13,970 --> 00:30:11,700
um you know so so what uh with all that

790
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:13,980
said you know what do you think some of

791
00:30:19,130 --> 00:30:16,860
the big challenges are here for you know

792
00:30:21,289 --> 00:30:19,140
human beings as as this kind of becomes

793
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:21,299
more and more widely accepted what's

794
00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:23,520
what's one of the biggest hurdles to

795
00:30:28,669 --> 00:30:26,340
overcome do you think here like just the

796
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:28,679
the Extraterrestrial notion that it may

797
00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:32,159
not be that or uh that physical reality

798
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,380
isn't exactly what we thought it was you

799
00:30:39,710 --> 00:30:36,720
know what's the biggest sort of tectonic

800
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:39,720
shock here that you think is happening

801
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:41,580
I think there's one thing that stands

802
00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:43,140
out to me it's that this will

803
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:45,779
demonstrate to us how little we know

804
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:48,779
because up until now we're the lone wolf

805
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:51,600
on the scene with the Apex intelligence

806
00:30:54,049 --> 00:30:52,740
at least that's how we've looked at

807
00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:54,059
ourselves right

808
00:30:59,570 --> 00:30:57,240
so suddenly when we're presented with

809
00:31:02,570 --> 00:30:59,580
this knowledge that not only are there

810
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:02,580
other sophisticated intelligences on the

811
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:03,480
scene

812
00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:06,960
but they Eclipse us many times over to

813
00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:09,480
the point where they fairly effortlessly

814
00:31:13,070 --> 00:31:11,340
have been able to conduct their Affairs

815
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:13,080
including interacting with human beings

816
00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:15,360
and running hybridization programs

817
00:31:19,490 --> 00:31:18,179
whatnot with us being largely unaware of

818
00:31:21,409 --> 00:31:19,500
the entire thing

819
00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:21,419
which we think about

820
00:31:25,730 --> 00:31:23,820
you know as parents you can fool your

821
00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:25,740
your five-year-old right it's harder

822
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,720
when they're 10 or 15 but when they're

823
00:31:31,130 --> 00:31:29,279
five years old you you can really fool

824
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:31,140
them and they are convinced of these

825
00:31:35,149 --> 00:31:32,520
miraculous things that you're able to do

826
00:31:36,049 --> 00:31:35,159
as adults that's kind of how I think a

827
00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:36,059
lot of people are going to feel they're

828
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,580
going to feel like five-year-olds who

829
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,039
are being schooled by these much more

830
00:31:46,570 --> 00:31:43,440
sophisticated intelligences so that's

831
00:31:50,029 --> 00:31:46,580
the first I think real

832
00:31:52,190 --> 00:31:50,039
Monumental fact to metabolize and I

833
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,200
think a lot of people even now and this

834
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,760
surprises me because this is not the way

835
00:31:57,289 --> 00:31:55,440
that I'm built at all

836
00:31:58,909 --> 00:31:57,299
I like mystery

837
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,919
but a lot of people just don't even want

838
00:32:02,330 --> 00:32:00,480
to talk about this not so much because

839
00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:02,340
they're not interested but to my

840
00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:04,380
surprise is because

841
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,539
it just kind of scares them they don't

842
00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:08,760
feel good about the notion that there

843
00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:10,380
are other beings so much more

844
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:11,940
sophisticated than us that they can do

845
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,340
things and we have no control over it

846
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,799
when they hear about hints that they can

847
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,720
control our Behavior patterns and I've

848
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,600
had that experience right then

849
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:23,940
and even control our perception many

850
00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:25,080
people will say well what are we left

851
00:32:27,889 --> 00:32:26,100
with

852
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:27,899
right there's no there's no not going to

853
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:29,940
be a war here between the aliens and us

854
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,220
they can control our behavior and our

855
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,559
perceptual States then it's game over

856
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,240
before we begin especially if they like

857
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:37,919
you say have a fight or flight response

858
00:32:42,889 --> 00:32:40,500
and this immediately triggers Their Fear

859
00:32:45,289 --> 00:32:42,899
of the other the unknown right this is

860
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:45,299
the unknown to the nth degree and it's a

861
00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:47,640
highly sophisticated unknown on top of

862
00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:50,279
that so A lot of people are just going

863
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,220
to have fear as a response because it

864
00:32:58,490 --> 00:32:55,440
doesn't fit into the

865
00:33:00,769 --> 00:32:58,500
Independence Day or Star Trek Variety in

866
00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:00,779
fact it shows us how silly those Notions

867
00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:01,980
are

868
00:33:05,630 --> 00:33:03,720
when confronted with the reality that's

869
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:05,640
much much more complex so I want to get

870
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:07,140
your take on that too but that's one

871
00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:09,120
thing that strikes me right away is that

872
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:11,220
I'm wired in such a way that

873
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,200
as you can probably tell by the things I

874
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:15,120
do and the way I conduct my Affairs I

875
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:17,159
pursue mystery it's what makes me feel

876
00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:19,799
alive but for many people anything that

877
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,380
is unfamiliar is

878
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:25,440
almost immediately scary and

879
00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:27,360
intimidating and something they want to

880
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,220
deny so that's also something we're

881
00:33:33,169 --> 00:33:30,960
going to have to wrestle with as we

882
00:33:34,909 --> 00:33:33,179
metabolize is there'll be large segments

883
00:33:37,009 --> 00:33:34,919
of the culture even when presented with

884
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:37,019
evidence will choose to deny it because

885
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,880
we already see that happening in our

886
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:43,730
yeah I don't know

887
00:33:52,909 --> 00:33:49,669
that we have a framework to to even

888
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:52,919
operate within to begin making sense of

889
00:33:57,649 --> 00:33:55,260
it right we

890
00:34:00,529 --> 00:33:57,659
we live in a time where our meeting

891
00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:00,539
making models are kind of busted uh that

892
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:03,419
there are most folks don't have one

893
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,039
really to begin with or what they

894
00:34:11,409 --> 00:34:07,620
operate under is some sort of kind of uh

895
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:11,419
like consumerist capitalist

896
00:34:19,730 --> 00:34:15,119
entertainment you know rat race or

897
00:34:21,950 --> 00:34:19,740
hamster Wheeling of life and you know if

898
00:34:24,349 --> 00:34:21,960
they're not uh entertained on a regular

899
00:34:26,990 --> 00:34:24,359
basis uh or if they don't have something

900
00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:27,000
to be outraged by uh

901
00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:30,060
if you dig underneath that layer of

902
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:32,099
reaction I guess that's that surface

903
00:34:35,629 --> 00:34:33,899
layer of reaction that everyone kind of

904
00:34:37,550 --> 00:34:35,639
operates under if you get below that

905
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:37,560
there's not a lot of substance there

906
00:34:40,490 --> 00:34:39,119
there's not there's not it's not like

907
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,500
there's a lot of people in other words

908
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:43,200
who have done the real meaningful

909
00:34:49,970 --> 00:34:46,200
difficult work on understanding who they

910
00:34:53,329 --> 00:34:49,980
truly are who we are as individuals who

911
00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:53,339
we are as the self uh that that inner

912
00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:56,460
work you know we're really good at uh at

913
00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:58,020
everything that that is on the surface

914
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:00,780
we're really good at evaluating the

915
00:35:07,010 --> 00:35:03,359
externalities of our world we're

916
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:07,020
horrible at the inner exploration and

917
00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:09,000
the the truth of the matter is is that

918
00:35:14,030 --> 00:35:11,400
it's the inner exploration that is the

919
00:35:16,670 --> 00:35:14,040
most important factor and I think is

920
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:16,680
Central to what the phenomena represents

921
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:19,440
in its totality and this is something

922
00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:22,920
that our our greatest Traditions are the

923
00:35:28,810 --> 00:35:25,560
the the Pinnacles of human of of thought

924
00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:28,820
philosophy civilization the these are

925
00:35:34,370 --> 00:35:31,560
conclusions that have all been you know

926
00:35:36,349 --> 00:35:34,380
sort of arrived at independently uh in

927
00:35:38,089 --> 00:35:36,359
different civilizations throughout the

928
00:35:41,089 --> 00:35:38,099
world and throughout our human history

929
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:41,099
so I think we need to look there and and

930
00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:43,740
kind of redeem some of the the the the

931
00:35:49,609 --> 00:35:46,200
the the understandings and the wisdom

932
00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:49,619
that we worked really hard honestly to

933
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:53,099
get to uh we need to revisit that and

934
00:35:58,510 --> 00:35:55,740
and and digest that in order to really

935
00:36:03,230 --> 00:35:58,520
be in a place where we can appropriately

936
00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:03,240
grapple with the the weird wild vastness

937
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:06,900
that the phenomena represents

938
00:36:12,349 --> 00:36:09,900
um and and you know I'm struck by where

939
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:12,359
do you begin with that you know it's not

940
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:14,099
like we have

941
00:36:21,470 --> 00:36:18,240
a world that uh is sort of eagerly

942
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,480
hanging on the words of a wise teacher

943
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:24,240
and and when they can answer in an issue

944
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:25,740
a pronouncement of some kind we're going

945
00:36:29,630 --> 00:36:28,260
to go oh yeah that's really like that's

946
00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:29,640
meaningful insightful and I'm going to

947
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:31,140
sit with that and make you know and

948
00:36:34,370 --> 00:36:32,880
really help that you know I'm going to

949
00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:34,380
use that to guide my decisions and

950
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,900
thinking no we're going to look to uh

951
00:36:40,910 --> 00:36:38,880
you know who are the Talking Heads who

952
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,920
are the uh the folks on reality

953
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:42,720
television and what they're going to do

954
00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:45,599
when they react to oh my gosh you know

955
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:47,180
we're not alone we're not the Apex

956
00:36:50,810 --> 00:36:49,320
species there's you know vast

957
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,820
intelligences they've been here all

958
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,800
along I mean you can only imagine the

959
00:36:58,130 --> 00:36:55,200
reactions that some of these uh you know

960
00:37:00,829 --> 00:36:58,140
sort of pundits uh will have and how

961
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:00,839
that will in a way kind of spin out of

962
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,560
control uh in our world because we we

963
00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:06,480
just haven't done the work you know

964
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,000
we're really kind of shallow people

965
00:37:13,849 --> 00:37:11,760
unfortunately uh and it's time for some

966
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:13,859
depth

967
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,900
absolutely and I think

968
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:17,760
I wholeheartedly agree with that and

969
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:20,040
while we can rightly blame some of that

970
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,079
on the nature of our society

971
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:24,720
we have a nine to five five day week

972
00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:26,040
work culture

973
00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:28,140
many people just struggling to pay the

974
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:30,180
bills and stay above water

975
00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:32,940
so much of that is true there's systemic

976
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:34,859
issues that we need to address again

977
00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:37,500
I've talked about some of those before

978
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,420
but nevertheless we also have to have

979
00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:41,280
this individual Reckoning I think where

980
00:37:47,089 --> 00:37:44,040
we recognize that if you had the time

981
00:37:50,690 --> 00:37:47,099
and the energy would you use that to

982
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,700
grow your interiority would you really

983
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:53,040
pursue the depths of who you are would

984
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:55,740
you explore the Inner Space of what it

985
00:37:59,390 --> 00:37:57,300
is to be human as much as you are open

986
00:38:02,690 --> 00:37:59,400
to exploring outer space in terms of

987
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:05,329
these are really key questions and I

988
00:38:08,329 --> 00:38:07,320
think people will be confronted by them

989
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:08,339
in ways that will make them

990
00:38:11,329 --> 00:38:09,480
uncomfortable

991
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:11,339
because to touch on something you hinted

992
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,950
we already in what we think of as

993
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,400
reality there's now all sorts of

994
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,839
evidence suggesting that it's actually

995
00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,480
just a perceptual interface

996
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,280
so that's the first thing people will

997
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,560
have to metabolize and that is already

998
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:30,900
massive

999
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:32,520
we look at the work of people like

1000
00:38:35,870 --> 00:38:33,780
Donald Hoffman

1001
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:35,880
who pointed out that what we basically

1002
00:38:41,450 --> 00:38:38,400
are dealing with is a

1003
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:41,460
reality construct that is actually the

1004
00:38:46,130 --> 00:38:43,500
fruit of the evolutionary process that

1005
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,140
gives us shortcuts icons and on an

1006
00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:48,480
interface if you will to allow us to

1007
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,280
navigate an underlying reality that we

1008
00:38:56,930 --> 00:38:52,740
don't usually interact with directly and

1009
00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:56,940
that is so complex and multi-faceted and

1010
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,700
would involve a bombardment of so many

1011
00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:01,200
sensory inputs that it would be

1012
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,180
completely overwhelming so what

1013
00:39:08,450 --> 00:39:04,800
evolution by natural selection has

1014
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,460
basically done is given us a a fiction

1015
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:10,800
a constructive fiction that allows us to

1016
00:39:13,490 --> 00:39:12,420
navigate and stay alive and propagate

1017
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:13,500
the species

1018
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,800
but is not a pipeline into the truth of

1019
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:19,440
the underlying reality whatsoever when

1020
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:21,060
you really sit down and think about that

1021
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,800
that already is a huge shock to the

1022
00:39:28,609 --> 00:39:24,900
system that

1023
00:39:32,210 --> 00:39:28,619
again the the point of evolution the end

1024
00:39:34,130 --> 00:39:32,220
goal has nothing to do with showing you

1025
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:34,140
what really is we talk about the blue

1026
00:39:37,730 --> 00:39:35,760
pill and the red pill in The Matrix

1027
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:37,740
evolution is not your friend in that

1028
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,060
sense all it wants to do is keep you

1029
00:39:43,370 --> 00:39:41,520
alive so if you believe that's a juicy

1030
00:39:44,450 --> 00:39:43,380
red steak then all that matters is that

1031
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:44,460
it keeps you alive it doesn't matter

1032
00:39:50,450 --> 00:39:47,760
what it actually is underlyingly

1033
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,460
so that's a huge one because what's

1034
00:39:54,589 --> 00:39:52,800
interesting is again and I hinted at

1035
00:39:56,990 --> 00:39:54,599
this earlier

1036
00:39:59,089 --> 00:39:57,000
sometimes when people have these

1037
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:59,099
different kinds of experience

1038
00:40:02,810 --> 00:40:01,320
Altered States of experience whether

1039
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,820
it's a near-death experience or an

1040
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:04,560
out-of-body experience or a psychedelic

1041
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:07,200
Journey like I just had or an encounter

1042
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:08,940
with beings that seem to take you into

1043
00:40:13,069 --> 00:40:11,700
an alternate realm or maybe it feels

1044
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,079
like sometimes you don't go anywhere and

1045
00:40:17,569 --> 00:40:14,880
yet everything changes it's like a

1046
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:17,579
different dimensional wavelength you

1047
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:21,300
enter into like changing a radio station

1048
00:40:26,030 --> 00:40:23,220
and the fact that all of these different

1049
00:40:27,770 --> 00:40:26,040
kinds of encounters and experiences

1050
00:40:29,630 --> 00:40:27,780
bring with them the sense of that being

1051
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:29,640
more real than real that being more real

1052
00:40:34,609 --> 00:40:33,180
than this so think about that not only

1053
00:40:36,109 --> 00:40:34,619
that people have to reckon with the fact

1054
00:40:38,990 --> 00:40:36,119
that there's these highly sophisticated

1055
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:39,000
intelligences in our midst but on top of

1056
00:40:43,069 --> 00:40:40,680
that that what we've thought of as

1057
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:43,079
reality is actually a subset of

1058
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:45,480
something much more complex that we have

1059
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,700
not really dealt with directly and these

1060
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:50,160
beings in their sophistication can run

1061
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,640
circles in those deeper structures and

1062
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:55,920
be able to take us into these different

1063
00:40:59,089 --> 00:40:57,359
Realms that we don't even know what they

1064
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,099
are we don't have no concept of them

1065
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,720
other than when you experience it you

1066
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:02,400
know something's different and somehow

1067
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:05,160
it's more real you come back here and

1068
00:41:09,230 --> 00:41:07,560
you actually feel this rather than being

1069
00:41:11,329 --> 00:41:09,240
oh I'm happy I'm home you often have

1070
00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:11,339
this feeling of actually this feels kind

1071
00:41:17,089 --> 00:41:15,000
of fake and uh

1072
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:17,099
like a construct it doesn't feel like

1073
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,560
it's the the base reality and yet all of

1074
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:21,119
these other experiences do

1075
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,180
so there's so much when you think about

1076
00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:26,880
what to do here because it it impacts

1077
00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:29,640
every every single area you know like

1078
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,280
who we are as a people why we're here

1079
00:41:37,849 --> 00:41:35,040
what is the purpose of life what is life

1080
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:37,859
and death how are these beings connected

1081
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:39,420
to us there's so many things to think

1082
00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:40,140
about

1083
00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:42,180
but for you how do you how do you think

1084
00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:43,740
about

1085
00:41:48,589 --> 00:41:46,680
let alone the whole alien question but

1086
00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:48,599
just the question around what is reality

1087
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:50,760
and how the nature of these experiences

1088
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:53,760
immediately bring that question in some

1089
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:55,500
ways more front and center than the

1090
00:41:58,310 --> 00:41:56,880
question of who these others are at

1091
00:41:59,690 --> 00:41:58,320
least initially

1092
00:42:04,210 --> 00:41:59,700
I think that's going to be the biggest

1093
00:42:07,370 --> 00:42:04,220
struggle uh is this um

1094
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:07,380
realization that the physical my

1095
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:10,020
physical instantiation everything that I

1096
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:12,780
think I know of who I am what I am what

1097
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:16,440
life is uh what death is all of those

1098
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:21,060
things are uh just an overlay onto some

1099
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:24,540
some sort of deeper structure uh it

1100
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:27,839
raises a whole host of of questions uh

1101
00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:30,000
that I don't know that I'm or most of us

1102
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:33,420
are prepared to even entertain uh

1103
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:36,960
questions of identity and self uh of the

1104
00:42:44,089 --> 00:42:40,920
Persistence of self of agency uh of uh

1105
00:42:46,130 --> 00:42:44,099
relationships uh you know Duality I mean

1106
00:42:49,130 --> 00:42:46,140
all these things are

1107
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:49,140
come into into play here

1108
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,240
um you know the the thing that came to

1109
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:52,800
mind as you were just talking there that

1110
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:55,440
I think for me at least helps illustrate

1111
00:43:00,290 --> 00:42:57,660
the the sort of strangeness of it all

1112
00:43:02,510 --> 00:43:00,300
perhaps is that

1113
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,520
you know while it it is true that we're

1114
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:04,920
finding that that Evolution as a process

1115
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:08,960
does not exactly uh lead toward uh

1116
00:43:13,970 --> 00:43:12,180
organisms that have a a representation

1117
00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:13,980
of reality a true representation of

1118
00:43:17,809 --> 00:43:16,140
reality in fact it's the opposite well

1119
00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:17,819
it's possible that these intelligences

1120
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:20,099
don't don't even operate within the

1121
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:23,640
realm of the the physical uh theory of

1122
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:25,800
evolution at all that there may not be

1123
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:28,560
for them that kind of evolutionary

1124
00:43:34,970 --> 00:43:31,920
limiter and for them the reality is is

1125
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:34,980
as it is is as it truly is

1126
00:43:40,970 --> 00:43:37,560
um and evolution for us is just really

1127
00:43:43,630 --> 00:43:40,980
kind of a byproduct of our of our uh

1128
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:43,640
physicalist materialist investigations

1129
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:47,940
it's a useful uh a discovery for us in

1130
00:43:52,609 --> 00:43:50,280
this world that we operate in but in and

1131
00:43:54,890 --> 00:43:52,619
of itself is uh there's no law that says

1132
00:43:57,650 --> 00:43:54,900
it has to be the case for uh entities

1133
00:44:00,050 --> 00:43:57,660
that may exist you know at a base a

1134
00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:00,060
deeper level of reality than where we

1135
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,180
find ourselves so that juxtaposition of

1136
00:44:07,849 --> 00:44:06,240
strangeness alone is is quite jarring uh

1137
00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:07,859
that there are these potentially these

1138
00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:10,020
entities that um and we talked about of

1139
00:44:14,089 --> 00:44:12,359
course there's a there's a great span of

1140
00:44:17,150 --> 00:44:14,099
entities you know perhaps that some

1141
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:17,160
which are Leica similar to us and have

1142
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:19,500
evolved and and may have the same kind

1143
00:44:24,050 --> 00:44:22,260
of evolutionary limitation on the way

1144
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:24,060
that they perceive the world but there

1145
00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:25,800
may be other entities that that don't

1146
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:28,020
don't have that and so

1147
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,800
um it's it's quite a lot to really it's

1148
00:44:35,630 --> 00:44:34,079
not this is no easy task and I think

1149
00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:35,640
that's kind of what we're landing on

1150
00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:38,220
here is that it's not something you can

1151
00:44:43,550 --> 00:44:41,400
necessarily hand a person a one-pager

1152
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:43,560
and be like here you go you know here's

1153
00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:45,680
here's this one little easy to digest

1154
00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:49,020
understanding of reality uh as it truly

1155
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:51,300
is I don't know that we're we're going

1156
00:44:56,450 --> 00:44:53,160
to arrive there in fact we're going to

1157
00:44:58,670 --> 00:44:56,460
require uh and maybe honestly you and I

1158
00:45:02,630 --> 00:44:58,680
are part of this endeavor we're going to

1159
00:45:06,010 --> 00:45:02,640
require uh you know sort of pioneers and

1160
00:45:08,510 --> 00:45:06,020
adventurers and uh not necessarily

1161
00:45:09,650 --> 00:45:08,520
astronauts but in intro knots or

1162
00:45:12,770 --> 00:45:09,660
something you know people that are

1163
00:45:14,750 --> 00:45:12,780
willing to to figure this out and and to

1164
00:45:17,809 --> 00:45:14,760
to stumble our way forward and push the

1165
00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:17,819
boundaries of of what is actually out

1166
00:45:23,569 --> 00:45:21,660
there in order to come back with some uh

1167
00:45:25,790 --> 00:45:23,579
learnings and wisdom that we can share

1168
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:25,800
with other people and help make their

1169
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:28,500
Journey a little easier uh so it to me

1170
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:31,200
it's a daunting task but a lot like you

1171
00:45:34,730 --> 00:45:32,880
I I like mystery and I like the

1172
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,740
challenge and I think it's that's one of

1173
00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:36,480
the things that's so attractive about

1174
00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:39,420
this subject generally is that it it's a

1175
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:43,140
gateway or into these most fundamental

1176
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:46,560
questions uh and as someone who's grown

1177
00:45:52,190 --> 00:45:48,260
up around

1178
00:45:54,670 --> 00:45:52,200
valuing that kind of uh of thinking and

1179
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:54,680
philosophy and theology I mean it's it's

1180
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:57,119
very enticing

1181
00:46:00,650 --> 00:45:58,079
um

1182
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:00,660
yeah that's what I'll say about it

1183
00:46:04,430 --> 00:46:03,060
yeah I was thinking about the analogy of

1184
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:04,440
The Truman Show when you were talking

1185
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:05,880
about that there because I think again A

1186
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:07,800
lot of people are under the assumption

1187
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:09,359
that

1188
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:11,700
in fact you hear this said a lot most

1189
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,500
Americans already believe that

1190
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:15,599
extraterrestrial life exists so not a

1191
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:17,880
big deal just add that cherry on top of

1192
00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:19,920
the cake that we've already

1193
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,140
developed to describe and model our

1194
00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:23,280
reality

1195
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:25,140
but actually this is much more like The

1196
00:46:30,109 --> 00:46:28,200
Truman Show because this Revelation is

1197
00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:30,119
like pulling the proverbial thread on

1198
00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:31,500
the sweater

1199
00:46:36,290 --> 00:46:33,300
I'm thinking of a great Weezer song from

1200
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:36,300
back in the day where inevitably the

1201
00:46:43,309 --> 00:46:41,630
and then it's like The Truman Show it's

1202
00:46:45,710 --> 00:46:43,319
not just one more piece you recognize

1203
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:45,720
the entire thing to some degree is a as

1204
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:47,940
a narrative fiction which has been

1205
00:46:52,609 --> 00:46:50,220
useful but it's

1206
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,619
brought you to the precipice of an

1207
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:54,960
entirely new phase in human existence

1208
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:57,599
where we are confronted not just with

1209
00:47:02,089 --> 00:47:00,240
the proverbial other but we are

1210
00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:02,099
presented with an understanding that

1211
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:03,900
everything we thought was real was

1212
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:07,440
actually partial and really a fiction a

1213
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:09,119
useful fiction as you say but

1214
00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:10,920
nevertheless a fiction and that some of

1215
00:47:16,490 --> 00:47:14,579
these beings maybe evidence of

1216
00:47:18,849 --> 00:47:16,500
beings that actually at the end of that

1217
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:18,859
evolutionary trajectory

1218
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:21,119
transcend physical reality altogether

1219
00:47:24,170 --> 00:47:22,800
what we perceive as physical reality

1220
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:24,180
again this is the thing every time you

1221
00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:25,680
talk about this you're constantly

1222
00:47:30,109 --> 00:47:28,260
qualifying the terms you use because

1223
00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:30,119
when people say well is this happening

1224
00:47:34,130 --> 00:47:32,520
in physical reality my question is well

1225
00:47:36,430 --> 00:47:34,140
how do you define physical reality

1226
00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:36,440
because again as I've said many times

1227
00:47:42,109 --> 00:47:39,780
people like Nima or kaneha Med these

1228
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:42,119
World leading physicists are saying

1229
00:47:48,050 --> 00:47:45,359
space time is largely illusory it's a

1230
00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:48,060
secondary byproduct of some deeper

1231
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,140
structure and you can already see

1232
00:47:56,089 --> 00:47:54,960
evidence that it's not a real thing it's

1233
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:56,099
actually

1234
00:48:02,030 --> 00:47:58,920
largely an illusion it's a persuasive

1235
00:48:03,950 --> 00:48:02,040
illusion and we've again evolved around

1236
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,960
it in such a way that we have this

1237
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,520
relationship with it but nevertheless

1238
00:48:09,530 --> 00:48:07,920
there is a deeper structure from which

1239
00:48:11,809 --> 00:48:09,540
you get things like quantum theory and

1240
00:48:13,550 --> 00:48:11,819
space-time so when you recognize that

1241
00:48:15,470 --> 00:48:13,560
these beings are so sophisticated that

1242
00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:15,480
they're probably long been aware of that

1243
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,920
and they're actually working in these

1244
00:48:20,329 --> 00:48:18,240
deeper structures

1245
00:48:22,670 --> 00:48:20,339
and that if you think about that really

1246
00:48:24,530 --> 00:48:22,680
changes the question because it's not do

1247
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:24,540
they have physics that goes beyond our

1248
00:48:28,130 --> 00:48:26,040
understanding of physics it's

1249
00:48:31,069 --> 00:48:28,140
recognizing as Bernardo Castro plugs to

1250
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:31,079
say physics is the study and measurement

1251
00:48:37,849 --> 00:48:34,980
of our perception not of reality

1252
00:48:41,390 --> 00:48:37,859
I'll say that again physics is the study

1253
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:41,400
of our perception not of reality so when

1254
00:48:47,089 --> 00:48:44,760
you start recognizing how small and

1255
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,099
truncated and limited our understanding

1256
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:49,440
of what we think reality has been and

1257
00:48:55,069 --> 00:48:51,720
that what this Revelation these series

1258
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:55,079
of Revelations will bring to bear is a

1259
00:48:59,569 --> 00:48:57,359
completely new understanding of what it

1260
00:49:02,089 --> 00:48:59,579
means to be a being in a reality that

1261
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:02,099
we've not dealt with directly before and

1262
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:03,900
that furthermore in fact when people

1263
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:05,640
have had these experiences like

1264
00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:07,200
out-of-body experiences near-death

1265
00:49:10,550 --> 00:49:08,700
experiences psychedelic Journeys

1266
00:49:13,010 --> 00:49:10,560
encounters with these others that take

1267
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:13,020
them into alternate Realms that actually

1268
00:49:18,290 --> 00:49:15,480
is closer to the base reality than what

1269
00:49:20,089 --> 00:49:18,300
we think about as our waking consensus

1270
00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:20,099
experience

1271
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:22,140
and how much will that blow people's

1272
00:49:26,329 --> 00:49:24,720
minds to recognize that our usual state

1273
00:49:28,370 --> 00:49:26,339
is actually the illusion that is the

1274
00:49:30,589 --> 00:49:28,380
dream state and some of these other

1275
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,599
Ways and Means can help us experience

1276
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:32,400
more of a base reality and hence why it

1277
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,599
feels more real

1278
00:49:37,790 --> 00:49:35,760
so

1279
00:49:40,490 --> 00:49:37,800
again I wanted to be able to highlight

1280
00:49:44,329 --> 00:49:40,500
some of this to make people realize just

1281
00:49:46,190 --> 00:49:44,339
how deep down the rabbit hole this goes

1282
00:49:49,089 --> 00:49:46,200
there is no way to quickly metabolize

1283
00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:49,099
this and not really a way that you can

1284
00:49:53,630 --> 00:49:51,660
even plan to okay we're going to have

1285
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:53,640
some destabilization then we'll you know

1286
00:49:56,089 --> 00:49:54,900
within three months we'll be back to

1287
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:56,099
where we were

1288
00:49:59,569 --> 00:49:58,079
again depends how it rolls out and

1289
00:50:02,630 --> 00:49:59,579
what's what's involved in that rollout

1290
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:02,640
but really this has the siege of a

1291
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:05,520
complete rewrite of our understanding of

1292
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,160
reality and therefore un

1293
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:10,319
doubtedly of our civilization the

1294
00:50:14,569 --> 00:50:11,760
structure of our civilization which

1295
00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:14,579
again I would argue is necessary so I

1296
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:16,319
see this as a good thing as much as some

1297
00:50:19,970 --> 00:50:17,880
people will feel intimidated by all of

1298
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:19,980
this I also just want to quickly say one

1299
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,780
last thing before I turn it back to you

1300
00:50:25,849 --> 00:50:24,240
to discuss the next Nuance we can we can

1301
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,859
bring up because there's many

1302
00:50:29,329 --> 00:50:27,599
but that is that I just want to remind

1303
00:50:32,569 --> 00:50:29,339
people that you can be in the presence

1304
00:50:34,670 --> 00:50:32,579
of a intelligence that seems so much

1305
00:50:36,650 --> 00:50:34,680
more sophisticated than you that can

1306
00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:36,660
think a hundred thousand times more

1307
00:50:41,089 --> 00:50:38,220
quickly than you I've had this kind of

1308
00:50:43,130 --> 00:50:41,099
experience where you feel like the

1309
00:50:44,809 --> 00:50:43,140
five-year-old and that's maybe an insult

1310
00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:44,819
to five-year-olds because you feel so

1311
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,200
much like you're being eclipsed by this

1312
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:48,240
intelligence it's relationship with

1313
00:50:52,190 --> 00:50:49,680
space and time is completely different

1314
00:50:55,069 --> 00:50:52,200
they basically transcended that you feel

1315
00:50:56,809 --> 00:50:55,079
like they have to speak in such a dumbed

1316
00:50:59,089 --> 00:50:56,819
down way to even communicate with you

1317
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,099
but in the midst of that and you feel

1318
00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:01,440
that immense powerful presence that

1319
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,720
sophistication and yet also feel

1320
00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:05,520
completely comfortable like get to the

1321
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:06,540
point where you feel completely

1322
00:51:11,089 --> 00:51:08,640
comfortable I've had experiences where

1323
00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:11,099
there's so much information pouring

1324
00:51:15,230 --> 00:51:12,660
through me when I'm in this kind of

1325
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:15,240
communicative state that it feels like

1326
00:51:18,589 --> 00:51:16,980
you're dying it feels like that and

1327
00:51:21,049 --> 00:51:18,599
that's why it's actually I would suggest

1328
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:21,059
it's helpful to practice things whether

1329
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:23,520
it's Buddhist Meditation or whatever

1330
00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:26,400
to begin to transcend your own sense of

1331
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:27,960
ego because the more you're familiar

1332
00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:29,819
with doing that the less attached you

1333
00:51:34,430 --> 00:51:32,520
are to a certain body-mind kind of

1334
00:51:36,170 --> 00:51:34,440
consideration of who you are based on a

1335
00:51:38,210 --> 00:51:36,180
history of I'm this person I was born to

1336
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:38,220
these parents in this place this is who

1337
00:51:42,170 --> 00:51:40,920
I am some total that's it the more

1338
00:51:43,849 --> 00:51:42,180
you're attached to that the more it's

1339
00:51:45,890 --> 00:51:43,859
going to be discombobulating to deal

1340
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:45,900
with these Revelations the more we can

1341
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:47,460
actually prepare ourselves by beginning

1342
00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:49,980
to transcend the ego to recognize and

1343
00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:52,200
actually practice even

1344
00:51:57,230 --> 00:51:55,380
different ways that we can experience

1345
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,240
that learn to familiarize yourself learn

1346
00:52:01,849 --> 00:51:59,940
to normalize that for ourselves the more

1347
00:52:04,430 --> 00:52:01,859
this will be easy to metabolize but

1348
00:52:06,109 --> 00:52:04,440
again like you hinted at earlier the way

1349
00:52:07,790 --> 00:52:06,119
our society is structured right now many

1350
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:07,800
many people have not even begun that

1351
00:52:13,010 --> 00:52:09,300
Journey

1352
00:52:15,170 --> 00:52:13,020
I I'm thinking about the the past we

1353
00:52:17,470 --> 00:52:15,180
that we ignored and could have gone down

1354
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:17,480
in our history that that we never did

1355
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:21,200
that uh you know take a lot of our

1356
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:23,880
uh our greatest religious you know

1357
00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:26,520
teachers and and the wisdom that they

1358
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,440
gained and and how they're teaching is

1359
00:52:33,950 --> 00:52:30,960
often were distorted and and twisted and

1360
00:52:36,589 --> 00:52:33,960
it really kind of uh commoditized and

1361
00:52:40,010 --> 00:52:36,599
you know we've certainly seen firsthand

1362
00:52:42,130 --> 00:52:40,020
some of the abuses uh that have uh been

1363
00:52:45,890 --> 00:52:42,140
born from a misinterpretation

1364
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:45,900
misapplication of the the teachings uh

1365
00:52:50,089 --> 00:52:48,480
from from our greatest Traditions but I

1366
00:52:53,329 --> 00:52:50,099
wonder what would human civilization

1367
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,339
look like had we actually uh heeded the

1368
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:55,920
the advice there and and uh and gone it

1369
00:53:02,030 --> 00:52:58,559
down a different path and maybe this is

1370
00:53:06,170 --> 00:53:02,040
an opportunity for us to uh come face to

1371
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:06,180
face with uh that choice again

1372
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:08,700
um and what will we choose we are so

1373
00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:12,720
wedded to the world that we have now

1374
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,480
um and and wedded as being too generous

1375
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:16,800
quite frankly because that implies a

1376
00:53:22,970 --> 00:53:19,680
degree of choice we in a way of have uh

1377
00:53:26,210 --> 00:53:22,980
have have enslaved ourselves uh to the

1378
00:53:29,329 --> 00:53:26,220
world that we live in now and uh many of

1379
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,339
us feel trapped right there is a sense

1380
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:31,440
that we have uh We've made a bargain by

1381
00:53:36,109 --> 00:53:33,540
which which we cannot Escape

1382
00:53:39,950 --> 00:53:36,119
uh and perhaps this is an opportunity

1383
00:53:42,049 --> 00:53:39,960
for us to uh to to do things differently

1384
00:53:44,750 --> 00:53:42,059
and to imagine a different world I think

1385
00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:44,760
that's what's the most challenging uh to

1386
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:46,859
even get your mind around is conceiving

1387
00:53:54,049 --> 00:53:50,880
of a world of other human beings that

1388
00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:54,059
that live breathe and operate with a a

1389
00:54:01,849 --> 00:53:57,240
totally different set of of parameters

1390
00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:01,859
and incentives uh and behaviors uh talk

1391
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:05,220
about a foreign alien experience I mean

1392
00:54:10,010 --> 00:54:06,960
you it's hard to even you know

1393
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:10,020
understand the conceive of it and that

1394
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:13,680
is perhaps what the confrontation with

1395
00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:15,660
the phenomena the being presented with

1396
00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:19,380
its reality May Force us to do

1397
00:54:23,569 --> 00:54:21,540
um but but there will be the denialists

1398
00:54:25,730 --> 00:54:23,579
of course you know the escapists and and

1399
00:54:27,950 --> 00:54:25,740
I'm not going to pay attention to that I

1400
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,960
want this world that I have

1401
00:54:32,450 --> 00:54:29,040
um

1402
00:54:35,210 --> 00:54:32,460
so I I don't know I'm also I guess in

1403
00:54:37,450 --> 00:54:35,220
this discussion I'm I'm deeply curious

1404
00:54:41,809 --> 00:54:37,460
about the way in which

1405
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,819
the interaction from the others like

1406
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:43,440
you know

1407
00:54:53,390 --> 00:54:51,530
almost uh violating to know that that

1408
00:54:56,569 --> 00:54:53,400
these others have been with us this

1409
00:54:59,630 --> 00:54:56,579
whole time and and can experience you

1410
00:55:02,089 --> 00:54:59,640
and I and everyone in ways that we can't

1411
00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:02,099
even understand ourselves it feels uh

1412
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,920
like a violation of our privacy it's uh

1413
00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:06,720
you know so but I don't know if we can

1414
00:55:09,470 --> 00:55:07,980
kind of explore that to some degree

1415
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:09,480
because we we've definitely talked about

1416
00:55:14,329 --> 00:55:12,359
how this manifests itself in things like

1417
00:55:16,910 --> 00:55:14,339
the experiencer accounts you know that

1418
00:55:19,010 --> 00:55:16,920
that where many of the experiencers will

1419
00:55:20,510 --> 00:55:19,020
initially have a sense in which they've

1420
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,520
been abducted they've been violated

1421
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:22,559
they've been taken against their will

1422
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:25,500
later on they may contextualize that in

1423
00:55:30,049 --> 00:55:27,780
different ways and and may you know

1424
00:55:32,450 --> 00:55:30,059
understand it in a different uh facet

1425
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:32,460
that is enriching and adds to their life

1426
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:35,040
and and isn't viewed in a negative

1427
00:55:41,089 --> 00:55:38,460
context anymore so uh you know is that a

1428
00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:41,099
good sort of way to to think about this

1429
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:43,380
that maybe Humanity will

1430
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:46,260
as an on-ramp kind of go through a

1431
00:55:52,190 --> 00:55:49,440
similar stage similar stages of of not

1432
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:52,200
grief but of coping with what this

1433
00:55:57,230 --> 00:55:54,599
reality may be like

1434
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,240
it's a good question and just to refresh

1435
00:56:01,790 --> 00:55:59,040
people's minds for those maybe not so

1436
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,800
familiar with this aspect of the data

1437
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,359
I know people personally who have been

1438
00:56:08,329 --> 00:56:05,700
through this experience and

1439
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,339
you see them go through this process of

1440
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,319
metabolizing this for themselves

1441
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:12,480
so for instance back in the 90s when

1442
00:56:17,870 --> 00:56:14,880
John Mack was working with people who

1443
00:56:20,150 --> 00:56:17,880
had had these abduction experiences

1444
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:20,160
just again put yourself in their shoes

1445
00:56:24,589 --> 00:56:23,040
there was no Baseline for this this was

1446
00:56:26,569 --> 00:56:24,599
not something that you could look up in

1447
00:56:27,470 --> 00:56:26,579
the Encyclopedia set that existed at the

1448
00:56:29,630 --> 00:56:27,480
time

1449
00:56:31,849 --> 00:56:29,640
or the burgeoning internet

1450
00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:31,859
this was a complete unknown the idea

1451
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:33,240
that

1452
00:56:38,750 --> 00:56:36,720
apparently physical in every way beings

1453
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:38,760
were manifesting in your room you have

1454
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:40,260
no idea how they got there they seem to

1455
00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:42,660
just be able to go through solid walls

1456
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,180
and when they interact with you it's

1457
00:56:49,010 --> 00:56:47,520
very clear their physical beings this is

1458
00:56:50,690 --> 00:56:49,020
not just a projection this is not a

1459
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:50,700
hallucination

1460
00:56:55,309 --> 00:56:52,740
and

1461
00:56:57,470 --> 00:56:55,319
yes you feel that initial violation of I

1462
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:57,480
don't remember inviting you in here and

1463
00:57:00,109 --> 00:56:58,559
on top of that you're telling me we're

1464
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:00,119
going somewhere and you're going to take

1465
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:02,940
sperm or eggs and you're what you're

1466
00:57:06,109 --> 00:57:04,559
doing some sort of hybridized species

1467
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,119
experiment

1468
00:57:10,790 --> 00:57:08,400
and then I had to come back and try to

1469
00:57:12,770 --> 00:57:10,800
tell the world the story I have to try

1470
00:57:14,809 --> 00:57:12,780
to get people to take me seriously

1471
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:14,819
just think about how discombobulating

1472
00:57:18,349 --> 00:57:16,800
that is not just the initial nature of

1473
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,359
the experience but how no one's going to

1474
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:24,770
and nevertheless the vast majority of

1475
00:57:28,609 --> 00:57:27,119
the time these people given enough time

1476
00:57:30,250 --> 00:57:28,619
for reflection

1477
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:30,260
and getting past that initial

1478
00:57:35,930 --> 00:57:33,359
post-traumatic stress response

1479
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,940
come to Value these experiences and feel

1480
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,920
like they've been given a great gift

1481
00:57:42,349 --> 00:57:40,319
where they've been able to see much more

1482
00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:42,359
of reality to be

1483
00:57:45,650 --> 00:57:43,980
to have been able to come into contact

1484
00:57:48,349 --> 00:57:45,660
with beings that

1485
00:57:50,450 --> 00:57:48,359
really put into proper context how

1486
00:57:52,910 --> 00:57:50,460
limited we are and how much

1487
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,920
on a positive note how much potential we

1488
00:57:57,290 --> 00:57:55,440
have to grow and change and become much

1489
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:57,300
more than we see ourselves as being now

1490
00:58:01,370 --> 00:57:59,040
because this touches on what you

1491
00:58:03,890 --> 00:58:01,380
mentioned earlier our biggest

1492
00:58:05,809 --> 00:58:03,900
problem is a lack of imagination

1493
00:58:07,549 --> 00:58:05,819
the reason why our society doesn't

1494
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:07,559
change in a greater clip than it does is

1495
00:58:11,150 --> 00:58:09,359
because we just have a lack of

1496
00:58:13,010 --> 00:58:11,160
imagination and so like you say many

1497
00:58:14,990 --> 00:58:13,020
people feel kind of stuck but they don't

1498
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,000
know how to change it and to some degree

1499
00:58:19,849 --> 00:58:17,520
we also excuse ourselves from being

1500
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:19,859
culpable that the same system keeps

1501
00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:21,300
continuing I understand the one hand

1502
00:58:27,290 --> 00:58:24,420
that we feel helpless in some some ways

1503
00:58:30,109 --> 00:58:27,300
but are we really all doing the best we

1504
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,119
can to whatever small way we can move

1505
00:58:33,530 --> 00:58:32,160
the needle forward are we doing that or

1506
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:33,540
are we just throwing our hands up and

1507
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:35,520
saying well it's not my problem really

1508
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:36,960
because I'm not the one in charge anyway

1509
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:39,119
and is that really how you would go

1510
00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:41,160
about things if you really felt in your

1511
00:58:44,690 --> 00:58:43,260
deepest bones that that's what needed to

1512
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:44,700
happen

1513
00:58:49,130 --> 00:58:46,500
but yeah these people that have these

1514
00:58:52,430 --> 00:58:49,140
experiences eventually come to not only

1515
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:52,440
change their opinion of these others and

1516
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,540
metabolize and begin to normalize a

1517
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,760
sense of this is this is reality it's

1518
00:58:59,089 --> 00:58:58,079
much more than we thought of reality

1519
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:59,099
before

1520
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:01,200
but on top of that and this is again the

1521
00:59:05,329 --> 00:59:03,660
part that is mind-blowing on top of

1522
00:59:06,289 --> 00:59:05,339
mind-blowing a whole different level

1523
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:06,299
here

1524
00:59:09,770 --> 00:59:07,920
is that they even begin to see

1525
00:59:12,890 --> 00:59:09,780
themselves differently and they begin to

1526
00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:12,900
for instance very often have memories

1527
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,140
greater awareness of somehow being a

1528
00:59:20,990 --> 00:59:18,240
participant a willing participant in

1529
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:21,000
this process having memories

1530
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:23,040
of prior to birth

1531
00:59:27,410 --> 00:59:25,140
having conversations meetings around

1532
00:59:28,849 --> 00:59:27,420
coming into this world incarnating

1533
00:59:31,309 --> 00:59:28,859
having a mission

1534
00:59:33,309 --> 00:59:31,319
so this question around what is actual

1535
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:33,319
violation here versus what is volition

1536
00:59:38,450 --> 00:59:36,480
becomes very very complex because the

1537
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:38,460
very way we've defined

1538
00:59:43,789 --> 00:59:41,280
a self that can make decisions on behalf

1539
00:59:46,130 --> 00:59:43,799
of itself gets expanded right that the

1540
00:59:47,870 --> 00:59:46,140
the borders not only between nation

1541
00:59:50,270 --> 00:59:47,880
states but between ourselves and

1542
00:59:52,010 --> 00:59:50,280
everything else and everyone else also

1543
00:59:55,549 --> 00:59:52,020
begin to blur

1544
00:59:57,049 --> 00:59:55,559
so the implications are immense but yes

1545
00:59:59,089 --> 00:59:57,059
I think you make a good point that we're

1546
01:00:00,890 --> 00:59:59,099
going to go on through that uh as a

1547
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:00,900
collective as well we'll go through

1548
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:04,079
those different aspects of this grieving

1549
01:00:07,010 --> 01:00:05,760
process first of all just having to

1550
01:00:09,470 --> 01:00:07,020
recognize that what we thought of as

1551
01:00:13,069 --> 01:00:09,480
reality things that felt familiar and

1552
01:00:15,890 --> 01:00:13,079
like apple pie and American flags things

1553
01:00:17,809 --> 01:00:15,900
we grew up with are not going to be our

1554
01:00:19,730 --> 01:00:17,819
new understanding of reality and at

1555
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:19,740
first we are going to feel some sense of

1556
01:00:24,049 --> 01:00:22,140
violation because like you say

1557
01:00:25,250 --> 01:00:24,059
we feel a bit duped that we didn't know

1558
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:25,260
this was going on

1559
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:28,079
we also feel like when evidence is

1560
01:00:32,809 --> 01:00:29,520
presented which I think it will be in

1561
01:00:34,970 --> 01:00:32,819
the long run that there's been some

1562
01:00:38,329 --> 01:00:34,980
if not seating then definitely control

1563
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,339
and manipulation of our trajectory as a

1564
01:00:43,250 --> 01:00:40,559
species even genetic manipulation on

1565
01:00:45,289 --> 01:00:43,260
mass some people will not like that they

1566
01:00:47,170 --> 01:00:45,299
will feel like tagged animals that the

1567
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:47,180
same way that we you know breed puppies

1568
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:50,400
to be what we want

1569
01:00:53,210 --> 01:00:51,839
but again that really comes down to

1570
01:00:55,549 --> 01:00:53,220
recognizing we are not the Apex

1571
01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:55,559
intelligence and for me personally

1572
01:00:58,910 --> 01:00:57,000
I know some people have a problem with

1573
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:58,920
this but for me personally when I've

1574
01:01:01,789 --> 01:01:00,240
been

1575
01:01:03,950 --> 01:01:01,799
in the presence of some other

1576
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:03,960
intelligences that are much further

1577
01:01:08,270 --> 01:01:06,720
beyond me I trust that more than I trust

1578
01:01:09,410 --> 01:01:08,280
myself and I know some people will say

1579
01:01:11,809 --> 01:01:09,420
well you're just surrendering your

1580
01:01:14,270 --> 01:01:11,819
volition there like it's game over

1581
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:14,280
again even my sense of self becomes

1582
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:15,839
expanded so it's not as simple as it was

1583
01:01:19,970 --> 01:01:18,480
before so the equations get completely

1584
01:01:21,530 --> 01:01:19,980
changed that's what occurs to me here

1585
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:21,540
not just for individuals but for the

1586
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,870
that's um

1587
01:01:32,089 --> 01:01:29,040
it's like an ecstatic experience I mean

1588
01:01:33,470 --> 01:01:32,099
it's it's uh like you said it reshapes

1589
01:01:36,770 --> 01:01:33,480
the entire way you look you understand

1590
01:01:39,170 --> 01:01:36,780
who you are who what the world is and we

1591
01:01:40,910 --> 01:01:39,180
have examples of this and I I know I'm

1592
01:01:42,829 --> 01:01:40,920
kind of continue to dip back into this

1593
01:01:46,430 --> 01:01:42,839
well but that's because it's familiar to

1594
01:01:50,270 --> 01:01:46,440
me and I think it's also uh a very

1595
01:01:52,609 --> 01:01:50,280
useful uh well to to draw from and that

1596
01:01:55,789 --> 01:01:52,619
we you know we have a lot of anecdotal

1597
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:55,799
uh stories from our religious traditions

1598
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,079
of experiences that are just like this

1599
01:02:03,650 --> 01:02:00,720
and those Traditions wouldn't exist

1600
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:03,660
without individuals who encountered

1601
01:02:09,530 --> 01:02:07,440
other intelligence Beyond them uh we

1602
01:02:13,130 --> 01:02:09,540
just we called them Angels or we called

1603
01:02:15,650 --> 01:02:13,140
them you know God quite frankly uh but

1604
01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:15,660
but really it's something that that

1605
01:02:19,849 --> 01:02:17,940
doesn't fall into those need categories

1606
01:02:22,789 --> 01:02:19,859
it's just something that is outside of

1607
01:02:25,130 --> 01:02:22,799
of a human instantiation a human

1608
01:02:27,289 --> 01:02:25,140
intelligence but when you encounter it

1609
01:02:29,710 --> 01:02:27,299
and and when you when you in turn a

1610
01:02:31,930 --> 01:02:29,720
relationship with it

1611
01:02:35,210 --> 01:02:31,940
you're all you're at a loss for words

1612
01:02:38,329 --> 01:02:35,220
you are doing it the best you can to

1613
01:02:41,329 --> 01:02:38,339
transcribe what it feels like in that

1614
01:02:43,849 --> 01:02:41,339
moment and the way the world uh has been

1615
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,859
transformed in that moment and you're

1616
01:02:47,630 --> 01:02:45,599
then you're going back to to your

1617
01:02:48,829 --> 01:02:47,640
colleagues your friends who haven't had

1618
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:48,839
the experience at all and you're saying

1619
01:02:51,650 --> 01:02:50,160
well it was like this it was like that

1620
01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:51,660
this is what I think it means and this

1621
01:02:54,650 --> 01:02:52,859
is how we should live our life and

1622
01:02:56,990 --> 01:02:54,660
you're getting a lot of just dumbfounded

1623
01:02:58,849 --> 01:02:57,000
looks uh you know maybe they're and

1624
01:03:01,130 --> 01:02:58,859
maybe lose friends quite frankly most of

1625
01:03:02,510 --> 01:03:01,140
the time you did lose friends in that

1626
01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:02,520
process they don't want to hear it they

1627
01:03:05,630 --> 01:03:03,420
don't want to listen to you anymore

1628
01:03:07,069 --> 01:03:05,640
because they they like the world that

1629
01:03:08,930 --> 01:03:07,079
they knew and what you're telling them

1630
01:03:10,970 --> 01:03:08,940
is a world that is unfamiliar that is

1631
01:03:12,410 --> 01:03:10,980
foreign that is alien

1632
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:12,420
to them

1633
01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:15,839
and so I I you know I'm of the opinion

1634
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,540
that for True transformation to occur

1635
01:03:25,670 --> 01:03:24,059
human beings are going to need an

1636
01:03:28,970 --> 01:03:25,680
experience like that

1637
01:03:34,430 --> 01:03:28,980
uh on a very personal level we're going

1638
01:03:37,250 --> 01:03:34,440
to need not just a a statement that that

1639
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:37,260
comes from an authority that that

1640
01:03:44,089 --> 01:03:40,559
helps us understand this is real but an

1641
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:44,099
experience of this otherness that that

1642
01:03:49,789 --> 01:03:46,920
is more real than real and and only in

1643
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:49,799
that experience you know are we uh I

1644
01:03:54,829 --> 01:03:52,319
would argue you know kind of able to be

1645
01:03:57,410 --> 01:03:54,839
truly transformed now you and I have

1646
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:57,420
talked about other time is that there

1647
01:04:01,789 --> 01:03:59,760
there are different methods by which we

1648
01:04:04,370 --> 01:04:01,799
can have that kind of experience even if

1649
01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:04,380
if you know we don't have an alien

1650
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:07,020
landing on our front lawn or coming to

1651
01:04:11,390 --> 01:04:09,119
see us in the middle of the night uh you

1652
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:11,400
know there are ways that that

1653
01:04:17,630 --> 01:04:14,160
individuals right now without that

1654
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:17,640
happening to them can can cultivate an

1655
01:04:24,170 --> 01:04:21,119
experience of otherness that is uh you

1656
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:24,180
know approximate or or similar uh to

1657
01:04:29,770 --> 01:04:27,359
what this is like and uh and I would

1658
01:04:33,170 --> 01:04:29,780
encourage individuals to to do that

1659
01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:33,180
because it does transform you

1660
01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:37,619
um and so you know how do we in in of

1661
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:40,140
the others taking direct action I like I

1662
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:42,000
kind of wish they would

1663
01:04:47,390 --> 01:04:43,920
um how would we sort of encourage or

1664
01:04:50,030 --> 01:04:47,400
recommend an entire world uh to to take

1665
01:04:51,710 --> 01:04:50,040
that kind of Journey uh after a press

1666
01:04:53,390 --> 01:04:51,720
release right I mean it just seems like

1667
01:04:55,150 --> 01:04:53,400
a really challenging thing to ask people

1668
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,160
to do

1669
01:04:58,609 --> 01:04:57,119
indeed and I'm glad you brought up

1670
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,619
religious history because we haven't

1671
01:05:03,770 --> 01:05:00,960
touched on that that much

1672
01:05:06,410 --> 01:05:03,780
but like you say ironically this has

1673
01:05:08,450 --> 01:05:06,420
shaped Western Civilization as many

1674
01:05:10,010 --> 01:05:08,460
historians have pointed out you cannot

1675
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:10,020
separate the development of Western

1676
01:05:13,130 --> 01:05:11,400
civilization and everything that's

1677
01:05:15,230 --> 01:05:13,140
brought with the fruition of

1678
01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:15,240
technological innovation you can't

1679
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:16,740
separate it from Christendom you can

1680
01:05:22,190 --> 01:05:20,220
separate it from Christian Europe

1681
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,200
having a certain view of an ordered

1682
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:24,480
Universe designed by God

1683
01:05:29,870 --> 01:05:27,119
that would allow us to study it learn

1684
01:05:31,849 --> 01:05:29,880
from it and develop Technologies to

1685
01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:31,859
manipulate it and to

1686
01:05:37,490 --> 01:05:34,440
move ahead and to mirror our image of

1687
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,500
God by taking control and Dominion of

1688
01:05:42,049 --> 01:05:39,119
everything around us right these kind of

1689
01:05:44,089 --> 01:05:42,059
religious terms we use we think back to

1690
01:05:45,650 --> 01:05:44,099
things like the Star of Bethlehem right

1691
01:05:48,770 --> 01:05:45,660
it sure sounds like an anomalous object

1692
01:05:50,990 --> 01:05:48,780
to me lights in the sky right did did

1693
01:05:52,849 --> 01:05:51,000
Moses come back and say wow I just had a

1694
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:52,859
crazy anomalous experience probably

1695
01:05:57,770 --> 01:05:55,079
didn't use those terms whatever the

1696
01:05:59,450 --> 01:05:57,780
Hebrew equivalent is but nevertheless

1697
01:06:02,390 --> 01:05:59,460
like you say this is what was happening

1698
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:02,400
and it's funny because we again in kind

1699
01:06:06,349 --> 01:06:04,260
of our lazy thinking we we tend to think

1700
01:06:07,609 --> 01:06:06,359
of these as different categories well

1701
01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:07,619
well now you're talking about religion

1702
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:10,500
well no we're talking about like you say

1703
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:12,180
people coming into contact with

1704
01:06:18,650 --> 01:06:14,720
apparently non-human

1705
01:06:20,690 --> 01:06:18,660
beings of vast intelligence to the point

1706
01:06:23,150 --> 01:06:20,700
where often these beings that have been

1707
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:23,160
called Angels historically have to keep

1708
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:24,960
saying don't be afraid why do they have

1709
01:06:28,130 --> 01:06:26,280
to keep saying don't be afraid because

1710
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:28,140
it's an overwhelming experience so while

1711
01:06:32,930 --> 01:06:30,720
we've tamed that and painted these

1712
01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:32,940
images of

1713
01:06:38,510 --> 01:06:35,880
childlike beings playing Harps with

1714
01:06:40,849 --> 01:06:38,520
wings really when you think about the

1715
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:40,859
way that the experiences were described

1716
01:06:44,930 --> 01:06:42,660
they were very overwhelming much like

1717
01:06:47,690 --> 01:06:44,940
you know a gray alien or or a reptilian

1718
01:06:49,069 --> 01:06:47,700
or a a giant mantis being I'm not saying

1719
01:06:50,750 --> 01:06:49,079
that's what they look like specifically

1720
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:50,760
but they were overwhelming they were

1721
01:06:53,569 --> 01:06:52,380
discombobulating to the people who

1722
01:06:56,029 --> 01:06:53,579
experienced it

1723
01:06:58,910 --> 01:06:56,039
and also changed their life you see

1724
01:07:00,529 --> 01:06:58,920
people who say who am I to be worthy of

1725
01:07:02,630 --> 01:07:00,539
this but I will give my life for this

1726
01:07:04,970 --> 01:07:02,640
now this calling that I feel

1727
01:07:06,650 --> 01:07:04,980
that's exactly how many people feel that

1728
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:06,660
have had encounters with these others

1729
01:07:11,450 --> 01:07:08,700
first is discombobulating overwhelming

1730
01:07:12,829 --> 01:07:11,460
but they also feel this igniting of a

1731
01:07:14,809 --> 01:07:12,839
sense of mission

1732
01:07:17,210 --> 01:07:14,819
everybody that I know that I'm sort of

1733
01:07:19,730 --> 01:07:17,220
on the same path with we all feel that

1734
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:19,740
like this is why we're here this this

1735
01:07:24,470 --> 01:07:21,359
intimate familiarity with this

1736
01:07:26,510 --> 01:07:24,480
phenomenon is Central to why we came

1737
01:07:28,609 --> 01:07:26,520
here why we're here what we're here to

1738
01:07:31,130 --> 01:07:28,619
do our business is not finished here

1739
01:07:32,750 --> 01:07:31,140
until we fulfill something that is

1740
01:07:33,950 --> 01:07:32,760
connected intimately to this phenomenon

1741
01:07:35,930 --> 01:07:33,960
and how is that not a religious

1742
01:07:38,450 --> 01:07:35,940
experience how is like you say has that

1743
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:38,460
on an ecstatic experience much like

1744
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:40,079
religious history

1745
01:07:44,029 --> 01:07:41,760
and then I think about

1746
01:07:46,670 --> 01:07:44,039
even hints that you know the the

1747
01:07:48,650 --> 01:07:46,680
Catholic church and the Vatican is well

1748
01:07:51,349 --> 01:07:48,660
aware that these things that we call

1749
01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:51,359
orbs now were part of ancient history

1750
01:07:55,490 --> 01:07:53,460
and even more recent history and you

1751
01:08:00,410 --> 01:07:55,500
have Notions like Saint Francis of

1752
01:08:02,029 --> 01:08:00,420
Assisi having bodily reactions that look

1753
01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:02,039
like what we would call now a modern

1754
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:03,240
disease

1755
01:08:07,730 --> 01:08:05,760
which can just basically happen when you

1756
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:07,740
come into close contact with these orbs

1757
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:10,079
so we have people that calm Kelly here

1758
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:12,480
saying well you know these orbs look fun

1759
01:08:16,370 --> 01:08:14,640
and exciting but don't get too close

1760
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,380
because not necessarily because they

1761
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:18,480
mean to but they're just kind of

1762
01:08:22,729 --> 01:08:19,920
radioactive they're not good for our

1763
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:22,739
physiology to come into contact with and

1764
01:08:25,729 --> 01:08:24,239
this may be some of the very same things

1765
01:08:27,890 --> 01:08:25,739
that were happening in religious history

1766
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,900
but we put it in a different category

1767
01:08:31,849 --> 01:08:29,520
and it makes me think about the fact

1768
01:08:33,530 --> 01:08:31,859
that some of the churches I was in in my

1769
01:08:35,390 --> 01:08:33,540
deep history

1770
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:35,400
I noticed a distinct difference there

1771
01:08:40,189 --> 01:08:36,960
was sort of the more charismatic groups

1772
01:08:42,729 --> 01:08:40,199
who were interested in having a

1773
01:08:45,289 --> 01:08:42,739
real-time experience with something

1774
01:08:46,610 --> 01:08:45,299
Transcendent something Sublime and

1775
01:08:47,709 --> 01:08:46,620
divine right and there was an

1776
01:08:50,090 --> 01:08:47,719
expectation that that was available

1777
01:08:52,490 --> 01:08:50,100
there were other religious groups also

1778
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:52,500
Christian who didn't like any of that

1779
01:09:03,229 --> 01:09:01,729
concretized monumentized kind of thing

1780
01:09:04,729 --> 01:09:03,239
that you put in a book and it's safe

1781
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,739
because you can't change the book right

1782
01:09:09,289 --> 01:09:06,719
and so you even see different

1783
01:09:10,189 --> 01:09:09,299
personality types ref you know reflected

1784
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:10,199
in different kind of religious

1785
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:12,960
Traditions I think what many people will

1786
01:09:16,729 --> 01:09:13,679
be

1787
01:09:18,530 --> 01:09:16,739
shocked and in awe of in this case is

1788
01:09:21,289 --> 01:09:18,540
that this is all happening in real time

1789
01:09:23,990 --> 01:09:21,299
this is not safe this has not been put

1790
01:09:25,610 --> 01:09:24,000
through tribunals like the Council of

1791
01:09:28,130 --> 01:09:25,620
nicaea and whatnot where everybody's

1792
01:09:29,209 --> 01:09:28,140
sort of inherits this ancient tradition

1793
01:09:31,130 --> 01:09:29,219
that's been

1794
01:09:32,689 --> 01:09:31,140
some people would say is ironed out a

1795
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,699
lot of the good stuff but nevertheless

1796
01:09:36,650 --> 01:09:34,560
it's tame and it's safe what we're

1797
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:36,660
confronted here is we are like those

1798
01:09:41,630 --> 01:09:38,880
religious figures we are Moses we are

1799
01:09:45,289 --> 01:09:41,640
Abraham right we are the Apostle Paul we

1800
01:09:46,249 --> 01:09:45,299
are these people having first century if

1801
01:09:49,010 --> 01:09:46,259
you will

1802
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:49,020
even though it's the 21st century

1803
01:09:53,329 --> 01:09:51,120
experience with something that

1804
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:53,339
fundamentally changes perhaps the future

1805
01:09:59,930 --> 01:09:56,400
trajectory of our civilization

1806
01:10:04,550 --> 01:10:02,689
we

1807
01:10:05,689 --> 01:10:04,560
this is about us right this is about who

1808
01:10:09,410 --> 01:10:05,699
we are

1809
01:10:09,420 --> 01:10:13,850
I don't know I can't help but

1810
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:15,229
you know think about that that

1811
01:10:19,550 --> 01:10:17,520
experience where it what does it feel

1812
01:10:23,229 --> 01:10:19,560
like to be truly known you know to be

1813
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:23,239
fully known to be laid bare uh and to be

1814
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:26,460
revealed in a way that that you've never

1815
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:28,800
been revealed before

1816
01:10:34,010 --> 01:10:31,920
um terrifying yes uh you know scary

1817
01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:34,020
absolutely

1818
01:10:39,709 --> 01:10:36,420
um intimidating definitely

1819
01:10:40,729 --> 01:10:39,719
but there's a degree of as you said

1820
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:40,739
earlier

1821
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:43,040
uh kind of kind of trust

1822
01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:46,560
that comes from that uh level of

1823
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:48,360
intimacy

1824
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:49,920
um and

1825
01:10:54,649 --> 01:10:52,679
you know you can't help but also look at

1826
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:54,659
the entire Enterprise and and Come Away

1827
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:57,600
with a sense that you know this is about

1828
01:11:03,050 --> 01:11:00,719
all of our Journeys right this is about

1829
01:11:05,630 --> 01:11:03,060
the the Journey of the the the

1830
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:05,640
development of the individual of the

1831
01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:08,400
individual awareness of uh you know

1832
01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:10,440
there's a lot of new age you know sort

1833
01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:12,060
of mumbo-jumbo that has been thrown

1834
01:11:17,570 --> 01:11:15,300
around but in a sort of uh what we are

1835
01:11:19,870 --> 01:11:17,580
here to do right and as you talked about

1836
01:11:22,430 --> 01:11:19,880
personality types and you know different

1837
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:22,440
personalities that are fixating on on

1838
01:11:28,490 --> 01:11:24,960
sort of the different aspects of of our

1839
01:11:32,090 --> 01:11:28,500
experience uh I cannot help but evaluate

1840
01:11:35,149 --> 01:11:32,100
the range of that uh behavior and come

1841
01:11:36,290 --> 01:11:35,159
away going yeah like some of us are you

1842
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,300
know we're here and we're really kind of

1843
01:11:41,870 --> 01:11:38,400
trapped on the things we just love the

1844
01:11:43,490 --> 01:11:41,880
things you know we it's uh you know we

1845
01:11:45,229 --> 01:11:43,500
just got here and everything's shiny and

1846
01:11:46,729 --> 01:11:45,239
we love the shiny stuff

1847
01:11:49,010 --> 01:11:46,739
um and then we have others that that

1848
01:11:50,450 --> 01:11:49,020
they get get here and uh none of that

1849
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:50,460
stuff means anything you know they don't

1850
01:11:55,729 --> 01:11:53,760
care about that stuff at all uh they

1851
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,739
care about uh how they treat other

1852
01:11:59,450 --> 01:11:57,360
people and they're you know they're

1853
01:12:01,130 --> 01:11:59,460
giving things away possessions mean

1854
01:12:02,330 --> 01:12:01,140
nothing to them

1855
01:12:04,370 --> 01:12:02,340
um

1856
01:12:06,770 --> 01:12:04,380
you know what

1857
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:06,780
we tend to We tend to look at those

1858
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:08,640
behaviors and create a kind of a value

1859
01:12:12,110 --> 01:12:10,739
scale oh well the people that are going

1860
01:12:14,330 --> 01:12:12,120
for the shiny stuff well they're you

1861
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:14,340
know their their low class they're

1862
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:15,840
underdeveloped like the people that are

1863
01:12:18,830 --> 01:12:17,040
giving it all away that's a hard

1864
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:18,840
development you know well you know maybe

1865
01:12:22,490 --> 01:12:20,640
in some ways you can look at it that way

1866
01:12:24,830 --> 01:12:22,500
but you know the truth of it is like

1867
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:24,840
this is these are the steps that we all

1868
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:28,980
must go through and I I think

1869
01:12:35,450 --> 01:12:31,199
you know all that you know kind of

1870
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:35,460
Preamble there is to say that the uh

1871
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:38,340
acknowledgment the onset of the

1872
01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:41,400
phenomena in our world is an

1873
01:12:46,189 --> 01:12:43,500
acknowledgment that

1874
01:12:48,729 --> 01:12:46,199
there is much more to be done that there

1875
01:12:51,530 --> 01:12:48,739
is much more than than just what is here

1876
01:12:54,530 --> 01:12:51,540
and and when there is more to what is

1877
01:12:57,890 --> 01:12:54,540
here how does it change the entire

1878
01:12:59,209 --> 01:12:57,900
Paradigm of what you value of what you

1879
01:13:00,470 --> 01:12:59,219
spend your time on what you send your

1880
01:13:03,709 --> 01:13:00,480
thoughts on how you treat other

1881
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:03,719
individuals uh you know those are the

1882
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,520
things that I hear from a lot of

1883
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:07,679
experiencers that that it has changed

1884
01:13:12,770 --> 01:13:10,440
the way that they have uh treated the

1885
01:13:15,649 --> 01:13:12,780
world they're much more conscious about

1886
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:15,659
you know their behavior at least they

1887
01:13:20,209 --> 01:13:17,760
they certainly try to be

1888
01:13:22,610 --> 01:13:20,219
um and so you know that's exactly what I

1889
01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:22,620
would expect to happen if you are

1890
01:13:28,250 --> 01:13:24,960
encountering a kind of intelligence like

1891
01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:28,260
this that uh you know is representative

1892
01:13:33,470 --> 01:13:30,960
of that deeper layer of reality it's

1893
01:13:35,689 --> 01:13:33,480
going to shatter into a million pieces

1894
01:13:38,450 --> 01:13:35,699
the things that that you know we tend to

1895
01:13:41,090 --> 01:13:38,460
think are important uh and we value so

1896
01:13:43,850 --> 01:13:41,100
many stupid silly senseless things and

1897
01:13:46,130 --> 01:13:43,860
it's gonna I think expose how stupid and

1898
01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:46,140
silly those things are and and those of

1899
01:13:49,729 --> 01:13:48,360
us that have been collecting them you

1900
01:13:51,410 --> 01:13:49,739
know we're going to feel pretty foolish

1901
01:13:53,450 --> 01:13:51,420
right oh you're telling me right now

1902
01:13:54,890 --> 01:13:53,460
that uh all this cool stuff that I've

1903
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:54,900
got behind me that I've accumulated

1904
01:13:59,630 --> 01:13:56,640
doesn't mean anything like it's not it's

1905
01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:59,640
not important uh well you know the world

1906
01:14:03,290 --> 01:14:01,920
that I grew up in told me it was so now

1907
01:14:06,410 --> 01:14:03,300
I'm kind of dealing with an entire

1908
01:14:08,510 --> 01:14:06,420
crisis that I have to navigate my way

1909
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,520
through I feel like a lot of people are

1910
01:14:12,530 --> 01:14:09,840
going to be stuck in that place at least

1911
01:14:14,750 --> 01:14:12,540
you know people in the West

1912
01:14:16,970 --> 01:14:14,760
it's a good point about how experiences

1913
01:14:18,890 --> 01:14:16,980
are changed because if you think about

1914
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:18,900
this perhaps this will provide the

1915
01:14:23,930 --> 01:14:21,600
opportunity for many many more people to

1916
01:14:25,610 --> 01:14:23,940
fall into that category where they are

1917
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,620
confronted with

1918
01:14:29,450 --> 01:14:27,360
Notions that transcend their previous

1919
01:14:32,689 --> 01:14:29,460
models of the world

1920
01:14:34,610 --> 01:14:32,699
and provide the opportunity to actually

1921
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:34,620
embrace a new way of being

1922
01:14:40,189 --> 01:14:37,199
I think that

1923
01:14:41,630 --> 01:14:40,199
something that really changed for me and

1924
01:14:44,830 --> 01:14:41,640
I know it's true for a lot of

1925
01:14:47,930 --> 01:14:44,840
experiencers is this notion that

1926
01:14:50,990 --> 01:14:47,940
absolutely unquestionably

1927
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:51,000
without a doubt this lifetime is not all

1928
01:14:54,590 --> 01:14:52,320
there is

1929
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:54,600
and it almost being Preposterous to

1930
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:57,840
think that that's the case so

1931
01:15:02,450 --> 01:15:00,960
once you really metabolize that part the

1932
01:15:04,610 --> 01:15:02,460
fact that this is just one chapter of

1933
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:04,620
many then

1934
01:15:08,689 --> 01:15:07,320
it's not about saying to people come on

1935
01:15:10,430 --> 01:15:08,699
they'll be so materialistic why do you

1936
01:15:12,110 --> 01:15:10,440
want a Ferrari in a big house on a yacht

1937
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,120
it's not about that it's recognizing

1938
01:15:16,130 --> 01:15:13,920
that as you kind of hinted at there

1939
01:15:18,530 --> 01:15:16,140
those things don't really have meaning

1940
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:18,540
when the context changes right it's not

1941
01:15:23,209 --> 01:15:20,159
that the things change it's that the

1942
01:15:25,010 --> 01:15:23,219
context changes so if you see what we

1943
01:15:27,830 --> 01:15:25,020
perceive as physical reality in this

1944
01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:27,840
lifetime is actually just being a stage

1945
01:15:32,330 --> 01:15:30,360
that has been set up to allow for the

1946
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,340
evolution of your Consciousness which

1947
01:15:36,050 --> 01:15:34,080
carries on after this lifetime that's

1948
01:15:37,610 --> 01:15:36,060
been here before this lifetime that in

1949
01:15:39,470 --> 01:15:37,620
some ways is not even linear like that

1950
01:15:41,950 --> 01:15:39,480
that's part of the illusory nature of

1951
01:15:44,330 --> 01:15:41,960
our experience you have a multi-faceted

1952
01:15:47,090 --> 01:15:44,340
multi-dimensional component to yourself

1953
01:15:49,010 --> 01:15:47,100
and again I've had experiences where I'm

1954
01:15:50,330 --> 01:15:49,020
feeling like I'm interacting with

1955
01:15:52,370 --> 01:15:50,340
another intelligence and it actually

1956
01:15:55,610 --> 01:15:52,380
feels like it's me it feels like it's

1957
01:15:57,530 --> 01:15:55,620
another aspect of me right so again this

1958
01:16:00,110 --> 01:15:57,540
gets very complex in terms of where do

1959
01:16:02,930 --> 01:16:00,120
we end and they begin

1960
01:16:05,810 --> 01:16:02,940
um but when you really have that shift

1961
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:05,820
in the perspective of the context then

1962
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:07,920
it just follows that you look at things

1963
01:16:12,350 --> 01:16:10,320
differently and you recognize that it

1964
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:12,360
would be a huge waste of your own time

1965
01:16:19,430 --> 01:16:15,120
and energy if you got caught up in these

1966
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:19,440
toys basically when you realize that the

1967
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:20,880
whole point of being here was to grow

1968
01:16:26,030 --> 01:16:23,760
your soul for lack of a better term and

1969
01:16:27,890 --> 01:16:26,040
that that's what you take with you and

1970
01:16:31,010 --> 01:16:27,900
so if you got caught up in these these

1971
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,020
toys then it's like you know a 35 year

1972
01:16:34,910 --> 01:16:33,360
old who's still in a sandbox in the back

1973
01:16:37,370 --> 01:16:34,920
of the house playing with like toy

1974
01:16:38,689 --> 01:16:37,380
trucks I mean that's kind of cute I

1975
01:16:40,970 --> 01:16:38,699
guess in a way but it's actually kind of

1976
01:16:43,550 --> 01:16:40,980
sad right it's like maybe you need to

1977
01:16:45,709 --> 01:16:43,560
move on so Failure to Launch in the nth

1978
01:16:47,390 --> 01:16:45,719
degree right so that that's something I

1979
01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:47,400
I want to point out here that it's not

1980
01:16:51,709 --> 01:16:49,500
about trying to shame people into saying

1981
01:16:53,630 --> 01:16:51,719
be less materialistic that's wrong it's

1982
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:53,640
about recognizing that will naturally

1983
01:16:57,530 --> 01:16:55,679
follow once you have this contextual

1984
01:16:59,930 --> 01:16:57,540
shift and you're aware of the larger

1985
01:17:02,450 --> 01:16:59,940
context and I think that this will help

1986
01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:02,460
do that for many people and as I pointed

1987
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:04,320
out I think in our last episode one of

1988
01:17:09,169 --> 01:17:07,199
the real fascinating questions for me is

1989
01:17:12,229 --> 01:17:09,179
what happens when hundreds of millions

1990
01:17:15,110 --> 01:17:12,239
of people are trying ce5 right what

1991
01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:15,120
happens when people are aware that there

1992
01:17:17,689 --> 01:17:16,560
are different kinds of entities all

1993
01:17:19,729 --> 01:17:17,699
around us

1994
01:17:21,950 --> 01:17:19,739
and you can actually

1995
01:17:24,410 --> 01:17:21,960
proactively try to make contact and it

1996
01:17:27,410 --> 01:17:24,420
seems to work again the the number of

1997
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:27,420
people who practice C5 or slash Heist

1998
01:17:33,410 --> 01:17:30,480
human initiated contact events and

1999
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:33,420
actually have not only encounters but

2000
01:17:37,970 --> 01:17:35,520
very often it's the case it's positive

2001
01:17:40,910 --> 01:17:37,980
encounters so again even that notion

2002
01:17:45,229 --> 01:17:40,920
right that that the way we Prime the

2003
01:17:46,669 --> 01:17:45,239
experience with positivity or negativity

2004
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:46,679
results in different kinds of

2005
01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:48,000
experiences people are going to have to

2006
01:17:52,010 --> 01:17:49,980
metabolize that right that they are

2007
01:17:54,770 --> 01:17:52,020
actually in a complex multi-faceted

2008
01:17:56,510 --> 01:17:54,780
Cosmos it's multi-dimensional and that

2009
01:17:59,149 --> 01:17:56,520
different beings are available to be

2010
01:18:01,850 --> 01:17:59,159
contacted but you have to be aware you

2011
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:01,860
have to have spiritual hygiene energetic

2012
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:02,760
hygiene

2013
01:18:06,410 --> 01:18:05,040
to make sure that you're making the

2014
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:06,420
right kind of contact in the same way

2015
01:18:09,950 --> 01:18:08,580
that we're conscious of where we drive

2016
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,960
in the city at the middle of the night

2017
01:18:13,610 --> 01:18:11,040
kind of thing

2018
01:18:15,229 --> 01:18:13,620
the same way you have to learn some

2019
01:18:16,910 --> 01:18:15,239
protocols to follow and this is going to

2020
01:18:18,050 --> 01:18:16,920
be very very new to people right this is

2021
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:18,060
uh

2022
01:18:21,950 --> 01:18:20,340
this really makes you think about just

2023
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:21,960
how far reaching this goes because it

2024
01:18:25,729 --> 01:18:24,239
not only do we become confronted with

2025
01:18:28,370 --> 01:18:25,739
the fact there are others in our midst

2026
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:28,380
but suddenly you have billions of people

2027
01:18:32,030 --> 01:18:30,239
aware of that and how does that change

2028
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,040
their behavior and how does that change

2029
01:18:37,070 --> 01:18:34,800
in Behavior then change the entire

2030
01:18:38,990 --> 01:18:37,080
civilization change the nature of our

2031
01:18:40,010 --> 01:18:39,000
relationship with reality

2032
01:18:42,350 --> 01:18:40,020
hmm

2033
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,360
well priming the experience I I have to

2034
01:18:48,290 --> 01:18:45,120
you know sort of explore how is the

2035
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,300
experience being primed right now uh you

2036
01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:50,400
know there's a lot of and has been a lot

2037
01:18:57,229 --> 01:18:54,120
of speculation in the UFO Community uh

2038
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:57,239
for decades of course that there are uh

2039
01:19:03,050 --> 01:18:59,280
the secret Keepers and there's going to

2040
01:19:04,610 --> 01:19:03,060
be kind of a controlled uh disclosure

2041
01:19:06,410 --> 01:19:04,620
there's going to be a rollout there's

2042
01:19:09,050 --> 01:19:06,420
going to you know the Puppet Master sort

2043
01:19:11,390 --> 01:19:09,060
of uh in a concept here

2044
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:11,400
um and I'm

2045
01:19:17,689 --> 01:19:14,400
you know aware here how keenly

2046
01:19:20,510 --> 01:19:17,699
important priming the experience is

2047
01:19:24,110 --> 01:19:20,520
right so so how is the experience of

2048
01:19:26,510 --> 01:19:24,120
this rollout being primed for Humanity

2049
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:26,520
right now I mean it's pretty clear to me

2050
01:19:31,010 --> 01:19:29,520
looking at it you know just unfold and

2051
01:19:34,189 --> 01:19:31,020
someone that has an interest in this

2052
01:19:37,370 --> 01:19:34,199
that it's the vector by which it's it's

2053
01:19:39,410 --> 01:19:37,380
unfolding is uh is very much through you

2054
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:39,420
know kind of the scientific inquiry

2055
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:42,080
scientific method you know academic

2056
01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:45,900
understanding uh that kind of blinders

2057
01:19:49,910 --> 01:19:48,420
on these things are permitted we're not

2058
01:19:52,010 --> 01:19:49,920
going to talk about these things because

2059
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:52,020
they're not real

2060
01:19:56,630 --> 01:19:54,719
um and so I'm wondering you know here

2061
01:19:58,970 --> 01:19:56,640
out loud is that the

2062
01:20:03,310 --> 01:19:58,980
is that the best approach for this how

2063
01:20:05,870 --> 01:20:03,320
do we go from uh that kind of narrow

2064
01:20:08,330 --> 01:20:05,880
material as scientific

2065
01:20:12,110 --> 01:20:08,340
you know expectation setting

2066
01:20:14,750 --> 01:20:12,120
to to transition from there to what what

2067
01:20:16,729 --> 01:20:14,760
it really is to The Wider how do we go

2068
01:20:18,890 --> 01:20:16,739
from from the nuts and bolts to the woo

2069
01:20:20,750 --> 01:20:18,900
as the sort of The Perennial debate in

2070
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:20,760
the UFO Community right we're not

2071
01:20:24,950 --> 01:20:23,760
priming for Wu at all right now I don't

2072
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:24,960
think

2073
01:20:28,850 --> 01:20:26,880
um and maybe that's because people of

2074
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:28,860
the woo was a lot harder it's a lot more

2075
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:30,960
subjective uh people have fewer answers

2076
01:20:36,830 --> 01:20:34,320
there if all we've done is a as a secret

2077
01:20:39,410 --> 01:20:36,840
state has been studying you know craft

2078
01:20:41,090 --> 01:20:39,420
or debris and under a microscope then of

2079
01:20:42,530 --> 01:20:41,100
course we're going to run you know roll

2080
01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:42,540
this out from a nuts and bolts

2081
01:20:48,290 --> 01:20:45,120
perspective uh if but on the other hand

2082
01:20:50,209 --> 01:20:48,300
there is evidence to show that that you

2083
01:20:54,290 --> 01:20:50,219
know agencies and individuals have

2084
01:20:56,450 --> 01:20:54,300
studied some aspects of the woo uh for

2085
01:20:59,229 --> 01:20:56,460
decades as well it's just that maybe the

2086
01:21:02,870 --> 01:20:59,239
answers are harder to uh

2087
01:21:05,390 --> 01:21:02,880
distill and package for a materialist

2088
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:05,400
audience so so how do you you think

2089
01:21:09,229 --> 01:21:07,440
about all this in in that you know how

2090
01:21:12,649 --> 01:21:09,239
do you think the the

2091
01:21:15,470 --> 01:21:12,659
uh the revelation of what this is is

2092
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:15,480
being primed for uh Humanity at this

2093
01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:17,280
moment

2094
01:21:21,530 --> 01:21:19,980
it's a good question and definitely I

2095
01:21:23,510 --> 01:21:21,540
think when we think about how this would

2096
01:21:25,490 --> 01:21:23,520
roll out for for instance the shamanic

2097
01:21:26,990 --> 01:21:25,500
culture it would be very very different

2098
01:21:29,149 --> 01:21:27,000
they

2099
01:21:31,610 --> 01:21:29,159
already see this as part of reality

2100
01:21:34,370 --> 01:21:31,620
right when Ross coldheart spoke with

2101
01:21:36,410 --> 01:21:34,380
Aborigines in Australia

2102
01:21:37,970 --> 01:21:36,420
they basically laughed and said you

2103
01:21:39,709 --> 01:21:37,980
white people act like this is a new

2104
01:21:42,110 --> 01:21:39,719
thing we've known about these beings all

2105
01:21:43,729 --> 01:21:42,120
along we have relationship with them so

2106
01:21:44,990 --> 01:21:43,739
for a group like them it's not going to

2107
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:45,000
be nearly as daunting because it's

2108
01:21:49,490 --> 01:21:47,040
already been metabolized it's they're

2109
01:21:51,050 --> 01:21:49,500
born with that kind of part of their

2110
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:51,060
culture

2111
01:21:55,610 --> 01:21:53,280
so as you say in western civilization

2112
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:55,620
where we've truncated reality where

2113
01:21:59,390 --> 01:21:57,480
we've flat landed everything so that we

2114
01:22:00,649 --> 01:21:59,400
think that physical reality is all that

2115
01:22:02,209 --> 01:22:00,659
really counts and everything else is

2116
01:22:04,729 --> 01:22:02,219
mushy subjective stuff that is

2117
01:22:08,149 --> 01:22:04,739
ultimately just the

2118
01:22:09,550 --> 01:22:08,159
byproduct of Epi phenomenalistic firings

2119
01:22:13,490 --> 01:22:09,560
of our brain

2120
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:13,500
then this blows that entirely apart but

2121
01:22:16,610 --> 01:22:14,880
how do you how do you take the first

2122
01:22:18,649 --> 01:22:16,620
step what does that look like

2123
01:22:21,250 --> 01:22:18,659
as we talked about right now there's

2124
01:22:24,649 --> 01:22:21,260
this attempt to ground this in reality

2125
01:22:26,990 --> 01:22:24,659
and to even if the secret Keepers know

2126
01:22:28,729 --> 01:22:27,000
darn well there's a there there they

2127
01:22:31,610 --> 01:22:28,739
recognize they have to package this in

2128
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:31,620
such a way that the Skeptics the cynics

2129
01:22:35,149 --> 01:22:33,600
will actually have to acknowledge that

2130
01:22:37,850 --> 01:22:35,159
something's going on that can't be

2131
01:22:39,709 --> 01:22:37,860
explained and in our culture the way

2132
01:22:43,490 --> 01:22:39,719
that that looks as you present evidence

2133
01:22:45,530 --> 01:22:43,500
that is objective impartial and

2134
01:22:47,930 --> 01:22:45,540
difficult to disagree with

2135
01:22:49,850 --> 01:22:47,940
but as I've said before I think

2136
01:22:52,729 --> 01:22:49,860
one question that really

2137
01:22:55,070 --> 01:22:52,739
comes to me around this and I'm sure the

2138
01:22:57,709 --> 01:22:55,080
secret keepers are wondering about this

2139
01:22:59,149 --> 01:22:57,719
is what will the response of the others

2140
01:23:02,030 --> 01:22:59,159
be to this

2141
01:23:05,630 --> 01:23:02,040
because they are not an inert Force they

2142
01:23:07,310 --> 01:23:05,640
are an ever-present force that have been

2143
01:23:08,689 --> 01:23:07,320
shaping things from behind the scenes

2144
01:23:10,490 --> 01:23:08,699
from behind the curtain they've been The

2145
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:10,500
Wizard of Oz if you will

2146
01:23:15,470 --> 01:23:12,780
so what happens when suddenly they

2147
01:23:17,030 --> 01:23:15,480
become aware that we're aware of them

2148
01:23:19,250 --> 01:23:17,040
this is an interesting question I don't

2149
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:19,260
think anyone knows the answer to it and

2150
01:23:22,970 --> 01:23:21,360
I also want to make this point because I

2151
01:23:24,830 --> 01:23:22,980
always want to give this caveat because

2152
01:23:26,750 --> 01:23:24,840
I think people otherwise think that I

2153
01:23:27,709 --> 01:23:26,760
paint too Rosie a picture of this entire

2154
01:23:29,689 --> 01:23:27,719
thing

2155
01:23:31,130 --> 01:23:29,699
again there are entities out there that

2156
01:23:33,229 --> 01:23:31,140
are not so friendly there are entities

2157
01:23:35,330 --> 01:23:33,239
out there that are not so evolved and

2158
01:23:37,490 --> 01:23:35,340
again I think those go hand in hand

2159
01:23:38,870 --> 01:23:37,500
the the higher your evolutionary

2160
01:23:40,010 --> 01:23:38,880
Consciousness is the more you're

2161
01:23:42,050 --> 01:23:40,020
connected to the sense of being

2162
01:23:44,209 --> 01:23:42,060
connected to everything and everyone and

2163
01:23:45,649 --> 01:23:44,219
that changes your behavior in the same

2164
01:23:47,810 --> 01:23:45,659
way I talked about when you change the

2165
01:23:49,550 --> 01:23:47,820
context of realizing this is just one

2166
01:23:51,050 --> 01:23:49,560
iteration amongst many lifetimes it

2167
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:51,060
automatically changes your relationship

2168
01:23:54,830 --> 01:23:52,560
to reality

2169
01:23:56,689 --> 01:23:54,840
in the same way the highest of these

2170
01:23:57,890 --> 01:23:56,699
beings see themselves as connected to

2171
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:57,900
everyone and everything and they don't

2172
01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:00,719
want to dominate or suppress

2173
01:24:06,050 --> 01:24:03,000
or colonize because that would be like

2174
01:24:11,330 --> 01:24:08,630
so there are again entities though that

2175
01:24:13,310 --> 01:24:11,340
are negative that are more like viral

2176
01:24:14,630 --> 01:24:13,320
kind of parasitic kind of entities and

2177
01:24:16,430 --> 01:24:14,640
people will have to be aware of those

2178
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:16,440
and the irony is those have already been

2179
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:17,520
working

2180
01:24:22,010 --> 01:24:20,159
in our world and we just haven't had a

2181
01:24:24,229 --> 01:24:22,020
category for them

2182
01:24:25,669 --> 01:24:24,239
so when you think about the

2183
01:24:27,410 --> 01:24:25,679
psychological field and I think about

2184
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:27,420
John Mack and what he had to run into in

2185
01:24:30,050 --> 01:24:28,260
terms of

2186
01:24:31,490 --> 01:24:30,060
saying to people this really was not

2187
01:24:33,890 --> 01:24:31,500
Psychopathology these people are

2188
01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:33,900
completely healthy this is a real part

2189
01:24:37,729 --> 01:24:35,460
of reality

2190
01:24:40,430 --> 01:24:37,739
and some things that we quickly wanted

2191
01:24:41,930 --> 01:24:40,440
to make mental illness issues were not

2192
01:24:44,390 --> 01:24:41,940
something else

2193
01:24:47,090 --> 01:24:44,400
but what this shows us is that

2194
01:24:49,250 --> 01:24:47,100
this really changes the menu because you

2195
01:24:51,649 --> 01:24:49,260
can have experiences that are positive

2196
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:51,659
that are not someone being delusional in

2197
01:24:56,330 --> 01:24:53,760
the same way some people

2198
01:24:58,250 --> 01:24:56,340
demonstrating negative behaviors even

2199
01:25:00,110 --> 01:24:58,260
self-defeating behaviors might also

2200
01:25:01,310 --> 01:25:00,120
being be

2201
01:25:03,229 --> 01:25:01,320
um

2202
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,239
unfortunately suffering under some sort

2203
01:25:07,070 --> 01:25:05,520
of parasitic entity that is not them and

2204
01:25:08,630 --> 01:25:07,080
it's not just something gone wrong in

2205
01:25:11,570 --> 01:25:08,640
the neuronal connections of their brain

2206
01:25:13,490 --> 01:25:11,580
this can't be fixed by drugs it's

2207
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:13,500
something fundamental about reality and

2208
01:25:16,729 --> 01:25:14,880
the relationship with reality and in

2209
01:25:18,590 --> 01:25:16,739
fact reality itself is kind of more

2210
01:25:21,110 --> 01:25:18,600
energetic and the physicality again is

2211
01:25:22,729 --> 01:25:21,120
just illusory and so that even changes

2212
01:25:25,010 --> 01:25:22,739
our entire understanding of Health Care

2213
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:25,020
how do we approach medicine when we

2214
01:25:30,169 --> 01:25:27,360
realize that we are primarily energetic

2215
01:25:31,790 --> 01:25:30,179
beings and that our relationship with

2216
01:25:34,189 --> 01:25:31,800
each other with ourselves with the

2217
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,199
greater Cosmos has more to do with our

2218
01:25:38,270 --> 01:25:36,719
health than anything to do with these

2219
01:25:41,209 --> 01:25:38,280
much

2220
01:25:43,010 --> 01:25:41,219
higher level things like drugs and

2221
01:25:45,290 --> 01:25:43,020
medicines that those are sort of last

2222
01:25:46,850 --> 01:25:45,300
gasp ways of trying to address the issue

2223
01:25:49,070 --> 01:25:46,860
that actually you can get at at the root

2224
01:25:50,450 --> 01:25:49,080
so these are all the questions that come

2225
01:25:52,310 --> 01:25:50,460
to mind the more we talk about this

2226
01:25:54,110 --> 01:25:52,320
tonight the more I'm aware of all the

2227
01:25:55,729 --> 01:25:54,120
different areas in our society that will

2228
01:25:58,729 --> 01:25:55,739
be impacted by this

2229
01:26:00,770 --> 01:25:58,739
but for sure one is just the fact that

2230
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:00,780
there is good and bad and everything in

2231
01:26:04,370 --> 01:26:02,880
between it's the full spectrum and

2232
01:26:07,550 --> 01:26:04,380
people are just not prepared to realize

2233
01:26:15,649 --> 01:26:11,390
it's a incredible task and

2234
01:26:20,810 --> 01:26:18,530
when when moments happen like this that

2235
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:20,820
they're happening at the right time in a

2236
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:22,320
way I mean as we talked about of course

2237
01:26:28,910 --> 01:26:25,020
you know time is uh in many ways a

2238
01:26:31,370 --> 01:26:28,920
pretty subjective thing uh

2239
01:26:35,149 --> 01:26:31,380
but the world

2240
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:35,159
really needs this and um I think to to

2241
01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:38,880
to the tragedy that it has been hidden

2242
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:42,239
uh from us that that the truth has been

2243
01:26:50,750 --> 01:26:45,360
suppressed uh in many ways that we have

2244
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,760
traded our our basis uh desires uh we

2245
01:26:56,810 --> 01:26:53,040
we've doubled down on those and we

2246
01:26:59,209 --> 01:26:56,820
instead of pursuing the the deeper uh

2247
01:27:01,850 --> 01:26:59,219
truths of of reality I mean and how much

2248
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:01,860
time we may have wasted uh in

2249
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:05,040
Generations we have wasted uh that have

2250
01:27:09,410 --> 01:27:07,920
been chasing the wrong kinds of things

2251
01:27:11,689 --> 01:27:09,420
um you know it represents this

2252
01:27:13,970 --> 01:27:11,699
tremendous opportunity for Change and

2253
01:27:16,250 --> 01:27:13,980
transformation and

2254
01:27:19,250 --> 01:27:16,260
uh you know call you can call me naive

2255
01:27:21,110 --> 01:27:19,260
or or too hopeful optimistic but you

2256
01:27:23,209 --> 01:27:21,120
know I believe we could use a dash of

2257
01:27:25,669 --> 01:27:23,219
that I believe that our world needs that

2258
01:27:27,649 --> 01:27:25,679
that we'd be better off if we if we went

2259
01:27:29,209 --> 01:27:27,659
down that path

2260
01:27:31,490 --> 01:27:29,219
um and

2261
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:31,500
you know it's perhaps these other

2262
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:34,320
entities are at least the ones that are

2263
01:27:41,149 --> 01:27:38,100
you know benevolent or not allowed to

2264
01:27:42,890 --> 01:27:41,159
get us in some terrible way you know

2265
01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:42,900
they're they're rooting us on they're

2266
01:27:47,570 --> 01:27:44,880
rooting this entire and dead efferon

2267
01:27:49,810 --> 01:27:47,580
they they want to see this come to pass

2268
01:27:52,910 --> 01:27:49,820
um because uh you can imagine

2269
01:27:54,649 --> 01:27:52,920
uh if you were a parent and you were

2270
01:27:57,770 --> 01:27:54,659
looking at your kids you know doing

2271
01:27:59,810 --> 01:27:57,780
terrible things and you were you had the

2272
01:28:01,970 --> 01:27:59,820
ability to step in and kind of stop you

2273
01:28:04,129 --> 01:28:01,980
know them from continuing to behave that

2274
01:28:05,930 --> 01:28:04,139
way I mean you you would it would be the

2275
01:28:07,550 --> 01:28:05,940
right thing to do

2276
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:07,560
um not because you think like just

2277
01:28:11,450 --> 01:28:10,080
intervening is gonna uh mean that

2278
01:28:13,689 --> 01:28:11,460
they're never gonna make mistakes again

2279
01:28:15,709 --> 01:28:13,699
but your intervention is

2280
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:15,719
intervening at all you're you're you're

2281
01:28:22,189 --> 01:28:18,840
you're hoping to introduce a teachable

2282
01:28:23,990 --> 01:28:22,199
moment where you can say hey if you

2283
01:28:25,430 --> 01:28:24,000
continue doing this you're going to not

2284
01:28:27,709 --> 01:28:25,440
only hurt yourself but you're going to

2285
01:28:29,990 --> 01:28:27,719
hurt your siblings you know you're going

2286
01:28:31,250 --> 01:28:30,000
to hurt your other the other around you

2287
01:28:34,370 --> 01:28:31,260
and you're gonna hurt the world around

2288
01:28:37,550 --> 01:28:34,380
you so pointing out making them aware of

2289
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:37,560
the damage that they can do uh you know

2290
01:28:43,430 --> 01:28:40,860
is is the responsible thing to do uh for

2291
01:28:45,709 --> 01:28:43,440
someone that has that kind of Greater uh

2292
01:28:49,250 --> 01:28:45,719
perceptual awareness of what is going on

2293
01:28:51,890 --> 01:28:49,260
and so you know I I hope I hope that the

2294
01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:51,900
others are many of the others are of

2295
01:28:55,850 --> 01:28:54,719
that persuasion that they uh are you

2296
01:28:58,370 --> 01:28:55,860
know kind of

2297
01:29:01,310 --> 01:28:58,380
you know rooting for this that they will

2298
01:29:04,430 --> 01:29:01,320
uh make themselves more known in a way

2299
01:29:06,290 --> 01:29:04,440
that will lead to True transformation

2300
01:29:08,689 --> 01:29:06,300
um you know I don't know it's not going

2301
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,699
to be easy that much I I think if we can

2302
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:10,800
pretty much guarantee uh and there are

2303
01:29:15,770 --> 01:29:13,199
no shortcuts either right we can't just

2304
01:29:17,450 --> 01:29:15,780
uh you know pop a pill here and go go

2305
01:29:20,030 --> 01:29:17,460
through the entire process we've got to

2306
01:29:22,189 --> 01:29:20,040
put in the work and that may honestly be

2307
01:29:24,770 --> 01:29:22,199
the hardest part of it all right is is

2308
01:29:26,570 --> 01:29:24,780
this understanding that uh a press

2309
01:29:29,270 --> 01:29:26,580
release isn't going to make you a better

2310
01:29:30,770 --> 01:29:29,280
person a press release isn't going to

2311
01:29:33,110 --> 01:29:30,780
magically solve all of your your

2312
01:29:36,590 --> 01:29:33,120
problems as much as you might crave just

2313
01:29:39,649 --> 01:29:36,600
disclosure uh there's still so much work

2314
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:39,659
left to be done and I think so many

2315
01:29:44,810 --> 01:29:41,520
people in the community are in absolute

2316
01:29:46,610 --> 01:29:44,820
abject denial about that uh that they

2317
01:29:50,050 --> 01:29:46,620
they just think that this is going to be

2318
01:29:52,610 --> 01:29:50,060
some sort of amazing you know

2319
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:52,620
Utopia whenever we get this uh

2320
01:29:56,270 --> 01:29:54,420
pronouncement from on high and I I

2321
01:29:59,330 --> 01:29:56,280
really think that that's uh only the

2322
01:30:01,850 --> 01:29:59,340
beginning of the next uh very long

2323
01:30:04,129 --> 01:30:01,860
chapter in in the human story and in in

2324
01:30:06,530 --> 01:30:04,139
our individual stories of the things

2325
01:30:08,510 --> 01:30:06,540
that we must do to to change and

2326
01:30:11,450 --> 01:30:08,520
transform ourselves

2327
01:30:14,149 --> 01:30:11,460
indeed agreed and that's a worthy note

2328
01:30:17,390 --> 01:30:15,890
thank you for listening with us and

2329
01:30:20,629 --> 01:30:17,400
spending time with us we really

2330
01:30:22,850 --> 01:30:20,639
appreciate all of the comments and and

2331
01:30:24,350 --> 01:30:22,860
shares and likes that we get uh on the

2332
01:30:29,810 --> 01:30:24,360
show

2333
01:30:32,270 --> 01:30:29,820
Darren and I I'm grateful for our

2334
01:30:34,850 --> 01:30:32,280
friendship and I'm grateful for those

2335
01:30:37,250 --> 01:30:34,860
that we have met along the way uh and

2336
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:37,260
know that that that we're going to you

2337
01:30:41,810 --> 01:30:39,360
know meet new friends and colleagues and

2338
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:41,820
uh as this conversation continues to

2339
01:30:49,129 --> 01:30:44,880
expand uh we hope that that you be part

2340
01:30:51,410 --> 01:30:49,139
of that we hope that you uh decide to

2341
01:30:55,669 --> 01:30:51,420
you know be an influence where you are

2342
01:30:59,570 --> 01:30:55,679
and be a voice for uh you know the good

2343
01:31:01,310 --> 01:30:59,580
that can be done in the world

2344
01:31:03,709 --> 01:31:01,320
um and may the call the quality of our

2345
01:31:06,229 --> 01:31:03,719
questions shaped by a desire for

2346
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:06,239
understanding enhance our journey of

2347
01:31:09,649 --> 01:31:07,440
discovery

2348
01:31:12,410 --> 01:31:09,659
and may our travels broaden the sphere

2349
01:31:16,490 --> 01:31:12,420
of our Consciousness reminding us that

2350
01:31:20,090 --> 01:31:16,500
new discoveries beget New Horizons

2351
01:31:21,890 --> 01:31:20,100
as always Adventure awaits

2352
01:31:25,580 --> 01:31:21,900
we'll see you next time on liminal

2353
01:31:29,390 --> 01:31:27,710
[Music]

2354
01:31:35,690 --> 01:31:29,400
[Laughter]